Re: [ANNOUNCE] Withdrawl of Open Source NDS Project/NTFS/M2FS for Linux

From: Jonathan Walther (
Date: Wed Sep 06 2000 - 15:47:03 EST


To do this, we need to be taught how. Where are the manuals
for these potential power saws? What books do we read? What courses
do we take? What websites do we visit? In short, wheres the beef?
Where does one learn the theory and concepts that go into these
"advanced" wonders of the information toolmaking economy?

I recently got my copy of "Debugging with GDB" from the FSF. While it
is a good start, far more is needed. "Deep C Secrets", while a valuable
read, doesn't go much farther in the use of "power tools". Would any of
you advocates of kernel debuggers and advanced debugging power tools show
us their intended use?

I do light construction around my house, but I'm not going to start using
a jackhammer or chainsaw without getting at least a little instruction
beforehand from someone who knows the business. I like to program in the
same way.

Jonathan Walther
Developer, Lineo

On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Daniel Phillips wrote:
> Mike Jagdis wrote:
> > I disagree. No one here is dumb enough to use a wholely inappropriate
> > tool for a particular task. But using a debugger is often (but not
> > always) like sawing bits off your 2x4 until it happens to fit the
> > gap. What you need to do is to understand the problem parameters,
> > measure them, mark your 2x4, then cut using whatever tool is best
> > suited to the job. In woodwork the results tend to be superior :-)
> Yes, you've put your finger on it. When you take a power saw and try
> to use it like a chisel, it doesn't work very well. If you are
> philosophically opposed to power saws, you may pick one up, try to use
> it as a chisel, and then claim that it is a very poor tool.
> This is what is happening here. The proponents of the 'withhold the
> power tools' camp have fixated on the idea of using a debugger to
> chisel away at a problem. This is a poor way to use a debugger.
> Instead, use the debugger to cut a large problem space into small
> pieces - pieces that are too small for a bug to hide in. Use the
> debugger as a power saw, not as a chisel, and you will have more
> respect for its capabilities.

Version: 2.6.3ia
Charset: noconv


To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to
Please read the FAQ at

This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Thu Sep 07 2000 - 21:00:27 EST