On Saturday 13 April 2002 09:52 am, Peter Wächtler wrote:
> Hubertus Franke wrote:
> > On Friday 12 April 2002 11:36 am, Peter Wächtler wrote:
> > > Hubertus Franke wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday 10 April 2002 03:30 pm, Bill Abt wrote:
> > > > > On 04/10/2002 at 02:10:59 PM AST, Hubertus Franke
> > > > > <frankeh@watson.ibm.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > So you are OK with having only poll or select. That seems odd.
> > > > > > It seems you still need SIGIO on your fd to get the async
> > > > > > notification.
> > > > >
> > > > > Duh... You're right. I forgot about that...
> > > >
> > > > Yes,
> > > >
> > > > The current interface is
> > > >
> > > > (A)
> > > > async wait:
> > > > sys_futex (uaddr, FUTEX_AWAIT, value, (struct timespec*)
> > > > sig); upon signal handling
> > > > sys_futex(uaddrs[], FUTEX_WAIT, size, NULL);
> > > > to retrieve the uaddrs that got woken up...
> > > >
> > > > If you simply want a notification with SIGIO (or whatever you desire)
> > > > We can change that to
> > > > (A)
> > > > sys_futex(uaddr, FUTEX_WAIT, value, (truct timespec*) fd);
> > > >
> > > > I send a SIGIO and you can request via ioctl or read the pending
> > > > notifications from fd.
> > > > (B) { struct futex *notarray[N]
> > > > int n = read( futex_fd, (void**)notarray,
> > > > N*sizeof(struct futex));
> > > > }
> > > > I am mainly concerned that SIGIO can be overloaded in a thread
> > > > package ? How would you know whether a SIGIO came from the futex or
> > > > from other file handle.
> > >
> > > I want to vote for using POSIX realtime signals. With them (and
> > > SA_SIGINFO) you can carry small amounts of userdata, passed in the
> > >
> > > struct siginfo_t
> > > ---susv2---
> > > The <signal.h> header defines the siginfo_t type as a structure that
> > > includes at least the following members:
> > >
> > > int si_signo signal number
> > > int si_errno if non-zero, an errno value associated
> > > with this signal, as defined in <errno.h> int si_code
> > > signal code
> > > pid_t si_pid sending process ID
> > > uid_t si_uid real user ID of sending process
> > > void *si_addr address of faulting instruction
> > > int si_status exit value or signal
> > > long si_band band event for SIGPOLL
> > > union sigval si_value signal value
> > >
> > > [and further on]
> > > Implementations may support additional si_code values not included in
> > > this list, may generate values included in this list under
> > > circumstances other than those described in this list, and may contain
> > > extensions or limitations that prevent some values from being
> > > generated. Implementations will not generate a different value from the
> > > ones described in this list for circumstances described in this list.
> > >
> > > ---susv2---
> >
> > Need to digest your suggestion a bit more. Not too familiar with that
> > interface.
> > One question I have though is whether information can get lost?
> >
> > Assume , I have a few notifications pending and signal the app.
> > We signal the app? what would the app call upon notification.
> > Remember, I don't want to pass in a heavy weight object into the futex
> > kernel call.
>
> Well, realtime signals are reliable in that, that the implementation has to
> assure, that NO signal gets lost (in contrast to the early unreliable
> signals [in Version7 ?]). For every notification a realtime signal gets
> queued.
>
That's great. Question is can the NGPT folks live with that realtime signal.
> Do you want to be able to read all (or at least a lot of) pending
> notifications at once? Then your interface _could_ be more efficient than
> using a realtime signal for every notification.
Occasionally, there is a chance that more than 1 notification is pending.
Hence I don't want to be in the situation to constantly get one notification
and have to check for more.
I think you solution makes a whole lot of sense.
> OTOH, if you pass the uaddr with the signal, you save one syscall ...
> Here is an advantage on low lock contention (number of waiters).
>
Yipp.
> So you want to read several WAKEUP events in your signal handler. Except
> for the pthread_cond_broadcast(which is not often used?) do you think that
> this is a realistic real world scenario or only good for a synthetic
> benchmark that shows: hey, on heavy lock contention: this implementation is
> faster.
>
> Looking closer at the pthread_cond_broadcast:
>
> a) NGPT and n waiters on the same kernel vehicle
> the thread manager could request one WAITA for all, would
> get just one signal and wakes up all threads on his own
>
Correct.
> b) NGPT and n waiters on m kernel vehicles
> all threads on their own vehicle will block on sys_futex(FUTEX_WAIT)
> all others are managed on user space queue and woken up
> by manager who gets only 1 notification
>
Correct.
> c) NGPT and n waiters on n kernel vehicles (like on LinuxThreads)
> every kernel vehicle will request a WAIT and block
>
Correct.
All <corrects> contingent on my limited knowledge on how an M:N package is
implemented.
> So when we have 500 threads competing for dozens of mutexes on a big SMP
> box: is the bottleneck in the kernel (and on the locked bus) or in the
> notification mechanism? I can't imagine (don't hit me on this :) that if
> the kernel releases a lock, and the app wants a fast notification (and
> delivered/scheduled in priority order) that there is a big chance that a
> lot of notifications pile up... What do you think?
> Also: the waitqueues in the kernel are protected by a mutex themselves,
> while in progress of waking up, no new waiters can be added.
>
> If the waiter has higher priority I want to deliver the notify immediatly
> so that it's getting the CPU and preempts the lock releaser - I wouldn't
> want a lazy wake up.
>
> [And yes, I am missing the wake up in priority order. Uh, now we can
> discuss the preempt patch again... and I will check how realtime processes
> are treated]
-- -- Hubertus Franke (frankeh@watson.ibm.com) - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Mon Apr 15 2002 - 22:00:24 EST