Re: keyboard problem with 2.6.6

From: Sau Dan Lee
Date: Sun May 30 2004 - 06:45:01 EST


>>>>> "Vojtech" == Vojtech Pavlik <vojtech@xxxxxxx> writes:

Vojtech> Q2: What application should be looking at the raw data
Vojtech> outside the kernel and why?
>> What application should be looking at the raw data from an
>> RS232 port outside the kernel and why?

Vojtech> Terminal. Terminals use the data directly.

Now, what prevents people from connecting terminals to a computer via
the PS/2 mouse port?

There are mice which can be attached to both the RS232 port AND the
PS/2 mouse port, needing only an adaptor. It should also be possible
to use a similar technique to connect a terminal to the PS/2 mouse
port. This would be useful when you run out of RS232 ports.

Your approach in the input system completely rules out this
possibility.


Vojtech> Anyway, the RS232 port is a multi purpose port, where you
Vojtech> can attach many different devices to it. For the keyboard
Vojtech> port, there is only one option, the keyboard.

What a big assumption. Yes, I admit that I don't know of any hardware
implementations that use the PS/2 (or AT) keyboard port for other
purposes. Maybe there are POS systems like that?


Vojtech> Of course, unless you create a device that can use it,
Vojtech> but in that case you can easily write a kernel driver for
Vojtech> it.

How about the PS/2 mouse port? It's not just for mice. There ARE
implementations using it for other things: touchpad, touchscreen, etc.
Your input driver places that stupid assumption that there can't be
other devices outside your support list that may use the PS/2 mouse
port, and you make the stupid assumption on HOW the port should be
used. That's within your imaginations. You're limiting other people
to your own imaginations. Worse still, there are ALREADY things
beyond your imaginations.



>> In a nutshell, I hate to be restricted by YOUR own imaginations
>> of how people should hack the system.

Vojtech> You're not. You're free to hack the kernel drivers.

Not everyone using Linux is patient enough to explore the Wonderland
of kernel hacking. Many immigrants from 2.4 are highly disappointed
by the new but incompatible mouse/keyboard behaviours. Some of them
returned to their 2.4 homeland because of this.

Not every new immigrant are that devoted to make the new country good.
Many simply hop back to the original country, or hop to another that
_may_ suit them better.



>> Raw keyboard data, for instance, can be captured for analyzing
>> how people use the keyboard and coming up with a more efficient
>> keyboard layout (c.f. Dvorak). That's already beyond your
>> imaginations.

Vojtech> The raw data not what you want to use there. You want the
Vojtech> keystroke data,

No. I want the raw bytes. (That's also useful for debugging a
hardware, in case people are making or experimenting with new
hardware.)


Vojtech> and for that you can use the /dev/input/event interface,

But that's polluted with some (0,0,0) events. In some situations, I
NEED the raw, uninterpreted bytes, much like people liking to watch a
film or read a book in the *original* language version, not a dubbed
or translated version.

Vojtech> where you get them in a sane format (as opposed to the
Vojtech> PS/2 rawmode, which can send up ot 8 bytes for a single
Vojtech> keystroke).

Sane != helpful or more useful.

I could study the I-Ching in English, but I would prefer to do it in
Chinese. Now, your approach is forcing me to do it in English. And
you believe that's a good idea.



Vojtech> Then your statistic analyser will work just fine even on
Vojtech> a Sun, Mac, or with an USB keyboard.

But it will not be able to handle the specifics. (That's the problem
with generic tools in general. But you shouldn't be restricting
people to only those tools. Some people have specific needs, and they
should not be ignored.)



--
Sau Dan LEE ???(Big5) ~{@nJX6X~}(HZ)

E-mail: danlee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee

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