Re: recommended mail clients [was] [PATCH] ati-agp suspend/resumesupport (try 2)

[Peter Williams]

Randy.Dunlap wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 10:01:39 +0800 Michael Clark wrote:
>
>
> > Peter Williams wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Michael Clark wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > Lee Revell wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 2005-12-26 at 20:03 +0000, Alistair John Strachan wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Monday 26 December 2005 17:54, Lee Revell wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, 2005-12-26 at 15:35 +0000, Alistair John Strachan wrote:
> > > > > > >   
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Monday 26 December 2005 14:38, Steven Rostedt wrote:
> > > > > > > >     
> > > > > > [snip]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I use pine and evolution.  Pine is text based and great when I
> > > > > > > > > ssh into
> > > > > > > > > my machine to work.  Evolution is slow, but plays well with pine
> > > > > > > > > and it
> > > > > > > > > handles things needed for LKML very well. (the drop down menu
> > > > > > > > > "Normal"
> > > > > > > > > may be changed to "Preformat", which allows of inserting text files
> > > > > > > > > "as-is").
> > > > > > > > >       
> > > > This is also the way to do it with Thunderbird. It will do the right
> > > > thing (and disables all formatting changes such as line wrapping to the
> > > > inserted text) if you select 'Preformat' before pasting in a patch - at
> > > > least my Thunderbird 1.0.7 does this.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a
> > > > > > > > long time.
> > > > > > > > It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes
> > > > > > > > are left
> > > > > > > > untouched.
> > > > > > > >     
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It seems that of all the popular mail clients only Thunderbird has
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > problem.  AFAICT it's impossible to make it DTRT with inline
> > > > > > > patches and
> > > > > > > even if it is the fact that most users get it wrong points to a
> > > > > > > serious
> > > > > > > usability/UI issue.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Would a patch to add "Don't use Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail" to
> > > > > > > SubmittingPatches be accepted?  Then we can point the Mozilla
> > > > > > > developers
> > > > > > > at it (they have shown zero interest in fixing the problem so far)
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > hopefully this will light a fire under someone.
> > > > > > >   
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Fundamentally the issue with Thunderbird is that it line-wraps
> > > > > > AFTER you compose an email, not during composition. I've never
> > > > > > understood how, or why this is useful to the end user, except for
> > > > > > composing HTML emails (which should be banned anyway).
> > > > Thunderbird will not linewrap anything that is inserted in
> > > > 'Preformat' mode.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > Thunderbird is Yet Another mailer that could have been a good piece
> > > > > > of software if it hadn't attempted to be a clone of Outlook Express
> > > > > > (defaulting to Top Posting, HTML composition, line wrapping pastes).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It's the mindset; fixing Thunderbird is probably easy, but
> > > > > > convincing the Mozilla developers to include such "fixes" is
> > > > > > probably much harder.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Should be trivial to fix, when the user puts the editor into
> > > > > "Preformat"
> > > > > mode or inserts a text file you surround it with <pre> tags.
> > > >
> > > > Fix the user behaviour you mean? Get them to select 'Preformat' before
> > > > pasting patches into Thunderbird.
> > >
> > >
> > > In my thunderbird, the "Paste Without Formatting" mode seems to be
> > > continually grayed out (i.e. unavailable).  I couldn't find anything
> > > in the preferences that altered this situation.  What's the secret?
> >
> > I'm selecting 'Preformat' in the email compose window and using regular
> > X Paste (middle button) - and it works for me (I can save the resulting
> > message to a .eml and diff it against the patch and it is perfect).
> > Perhaps the Debian/Sid Thunderbird has some patch? Don't know.
>
>
> so where is this 'Preformat' option?  I don't see it.

Nor me.

> > Note pasting from gnome terminal does not work (as it doesn't retain
> > tabs) nor does xclip work with Thunderbird for some reason. I use a
> > selection in emacs and paste that.
>
>
> still not good.
>
> ---
> ~Randy
> -
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--
Peter Williams                                   pwil3058@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"Learning, n. The kind of ignorance distinguishing the studious."
 -- Ambrose Bierce
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