Re: User vs. Kernel (was: To be smug, or not to be smug, that is , the question)

Richard Gooch (rgooch@atnf.csiro.au)
Sat, 23 Jan 1999 11:15:06 +1100


Jon M. Taylor writes:
> On Sat, 23 Jan 1999, Richard Gooch wrote:
> > To be fair, he did say Linux was a stepping board. So once one of
> > these NGOS's is ready for general use (and doesn't run like a
> > one-legged dog in a swamp), he will switch to it. Frankly, I don't see
> > that happening in the timeframe he mentions. Sure, there will be a
> > public release of such an NGOS, but I suspect it will run slower than
> > Linux 2.0. Maybe slower than Linux 1.2.
>
> Most of these NGOSes will be built, in whole or in part, with the
> OSKit and hance out of bits of Linux. Of course the glue logic and lack
> of special-case optimizations will mean that these NGOSes will be slower
> than Linux 2.2, but I'd be surprised if the NGOSes were slower than even
> 2.0. It would be hard to screw the Linux-based components up *that*
> badly. The U of U guys did a really killer job on the OSKit and are
> continuing to improve it.

Time will tell.

> > I recall a quote from Dave Miller a year or two ago, when there was a
> > thread about monolithic vs. microkernels. He pointed out that we
> > haven't even come to the limits of monolithic kernel design, so
> > considering monolithic kernels like Linux as "obsolete" is highly
> > premature.
>
> I do not think that blindly adhering to an obsolete design until
> the last scrap of performance has been wrung from it when a clearly
> superior alternative is available and free is a very wise use of
> programmer resources.

Rubbish! This is what evolution is all about! Species do not instantly
become extinct when a better one (occupying their niche in the
ecology) comes along. They become extinct when they are driven into
the ground by superior competition or a changing environment. They
hang on until the bitter end. Sometimes the "obsolete" species makes
an evolutionary jump changes the world forever. In any case, evolution
does not stop putting effort into a species just because something
better has come along.

One of the great strengths of the Open Source movement is that it is
driven by evolutionary development. To say that development of some
project should be terminated because you think some other project is
better misses the point. Besides which it's arrogant. Volunteers are
free to work on what they like: you have no right to tell them what
they should be working on.

Why not forward your troll to the *BSD mailing lists after doing:
s/Linux/BSD/g
s/NGOS/Linux/g

and see what a warm welcome you receive.

> > Much later, with 2.2 on the doorstep, I pause and consider his
> > words. 2.2 has brought us many performance improvements (networking,
> > dcache, SMP).
>
> Few of which are specific to the Unix API, and most of which could
> be pilfered for use in an NGOS easily. Exactly why is this relevant?

Read what I said again. The point I was making is fairly obvious: the
Linux kernel shows no sign of a slowdown in development. Your claim is
that Linux is, or will very shortly be, obsolete. To be painfully
explicit, I refute your claim by drawing attention to the continued
development of Linux. Until people run out of ideas, it will not be
obsolete.

Of course if 90% of Linux users switch to something else, then you
also could consider it obsolete. But I doubt that will happen while
new ideas keep coming.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Linux response to NGOS's is to
make an evolutionary leap (assuming an NGOS performs as well as
Linux).

Regards,

Richard....

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