Re: 20 years without semantic innovation is enough
Hans Reiser (reiser@ceic.com)
Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:40:29 +0000 (/etc/localtime)
Alexander Viro writes:
>
>
> On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Hans Reiser wrote:
>
> > My point though is that the file system semantics have been static for
> > 20 years. It is time for them to change. When they change NFS will
> Could we avoid metaphysics?
> > break, at least it will if the changes are substantive. For this
> > reason, to argue that NFS cannot be broken is to argue that there should
> > be no semantic innovation for file systems. That make the argument
> > invalid in my eyes.
>
> > NFS must be broken.
>
> Not in the kernel that runs here. Period. You break it, your patch is not
> applied on my boxen. If anything like that will make its way into the main
> tree (e.g. you'll tie Linus and give him one-way trip) be bloody sure that
> code split *will* follow. If reiserfs will require kernel changes that
> break NFS (I hope it will not) - though luck for reiserfs. Deal with it.
> NFS sucks in many, many ways. So does SMTP. So does DNS. So does IP.
> Unfortunately dropping any of them is not an option, unless you are
> willing to move into the brave new world where you can't interoperate with
> anything except the stuff written by vendor foo. We've been there. SNA
> lost. And one personal note - you've made everything to ensure that I'll
> treat any code from you as potentially maliciuos. Double audit and all
> such. Somehow I suspect that I'm not alone in that. After the things that
> were said I simply don't trust you.
Oh dear, we've gotten into flames, and I am rather to blame in this.
Don't open NFS directories as files, use Stephen's proposed solution.
Stephen wrote:
> Now, what we _could_ do is to provide a user-space library stub for
> other NFS clients which translates O_DIRECTORY() opens to a file into an
> open of something like "filename/.%%pseudodir%%", and have an NFS server
> which detects that pseudoname and munges it into an O_DIRECTORY open on
> the server side.
>
> See? Suddenly we are able to pass these calls over NFS while still
> doing something useful with local filesystem semantics. That's the sort
> of thing I would like to see us talking about. Simply dismissing all of
> existing practice as irrelevant and broken just doesn't get us any
> further, I'm afraid.
I like it. Now the only thing I would like more is to stop exchanging
flames and write some code. Of course, if I could resist getting in the
last word, I might be able to do that....:-)
Hans
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