Re: nice troll (was: All this resource-fork AKA multiple stream nonsense)

Nathan Hand (nathanh@chirp.com.au)
Fri, 9 Jul 1999 01:00:34 +1000


On Mon, Jul 05, 1999 at 01:20:12PM -0400, Albert D. Cahalan wrote:
>
> Stefan Monnier writes:
> >"Albert" == Albert D Cahalan <acahalan@cs.uml.edu> writes:
>
> >> You have a 1.5 GB compound document.
> >> It contains 3 evenly sized parts.
> >> You want to extend the middle part by one byte.
> >
> > You know perfectly well that this 3-component document will be
> > represented not as a file but as a directory, so extending the
> > middle part is just as easy as with "forks". Using bogus arguments
> > is not a good way to convince people around here.
>
> Fortunately I don't mind trolls. I don't think I have _ever_ seen
> a compound document represented as a directory. I know that TeX
> users do it sometimes, but they aren't normal users anyway.

I resent this implication! TeX users are human too!

> Ask a random MBA, art student, or secretary what "TeX" is.

Now ask the same question of "Linux" or "forks". Specious.

> Normal users don't write Makefiles for their documents.

This is a non-argument: TeX isn't required for "documents as a
directory" and nor are Makefiles. You're trying to confuse one
particular implementation with the fundamental concept.

> Every directory-based document system has failed for general use.

Except WordPerfect for DOS, which implemented forks in the DOS
equivalent of userspace (the document body and document layout
"forks" and every inline image were in seperate files).

> Directories are containers or "folders", distinct from documents.

Documents *are* containers, so are files. Files are containers
for bytes. Directories are containers for files. Documents are
containers for ???. That's what the argument is about.

The arguments for "forks" have actually been arguing for a new
container abstraction in the UNIX filesystem: a lighter weight
directory with special open/lock/read semantics.

But I don't think anybody before has argued that documents are
not containers of something!

> Attempts to hide this in a GUI will always fail.

Why? If the user never sees the kernel, only the GUI, then why
is there any difference between implementing an abstraction in
the GUI versus implementing it in the kernel?

-- 
Nathan Hand - Chirp Web Design - http://www.chirp.com.au/ - $e^{i\pi}+1 = 0$
Phone: +61 2 6230 1871   Fax: +61 2 6230 4455   E-mail: nathanh@chirp.com.au

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