Re: Blockbusting news, results end

[jw schultz]

On Mon, Oct 27, 2003 at 02:27:09PM -0800, Andre Hedrick wrote:
> 
> To date IDEMA has not released a formal spec for drive makers to switch to
> 4Kb sectors.  If they have, then when running in compatibility mode, a
> heavy read-modify-write happens to goto the pseudo sector of 512b.
> 
> Linux can not handled new IDEMA calls currently.

Irrelevant!

I am assuming that these numbers are applicable (one is
unknown):
	logical sector size == 512B
	physical sector size == ???B
	page size/filesystem block size == 4KB

Whether the write of a 4KB block is a single 4KB write or 8
512B writes i expect the drive will gather it so that 4KB is
being written.  If that 4KB (or whatever size write) is less
than the size of a physical sector a read-modify-write cycle
must occur inside the drive.  If the read portion of the
read-modify-write fails the requested write(s) must either fail
or data in the logical sectors adjacent to the write will
become corrupted.  This is whether or not the physical
sector is relocated.

Judging by logic and earlier discussions on the matter of
write errors if that write fails because of a read error in
the read-modify-write to the application it would appear to
have succeeded unless it were synchronous all the way to the
media.

This sounds very much like the described behaviour of the
Toshiba drive that started this whole thread.

To the best of my knowledge we have no way to know what the
physical sector size of a disk is.  For that matter it might
not even be a constant.  Perhaps the someone could inform us
what the drive will actually do if the read portion of a
read-modify-write fails.

> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Andre Hedrick
> LAD Storage Consulting Group
> 
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, jw schultz wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 08:25:26PM +0900, Norman Diamond wrote:
> > > Pavel Machek replied to me:
> > > 
> > > > > The drive finally reallocated the block and there are no longer any
> > > > > visible bad blocks.
> > > >
> > > > And what was the operation that made it realocate?
> > > 
> > > At first I wasn't sure.  I noticed that the drive was behaving differently
> > > when I told dd to use bs=4096 instead of 512.  Until seeing Oleg Drokin's
> > > message about ReiserFS, I thought that the drive itself was doing something
> > > differently.  That didn't make much sense to me because the physical sectors
> > > are much longer than 4096 and the pseudo-sectors are the conventional 512,
> > > so why did 4096 cause different behaviour?  From Oleg Drokin's message, I
> > > guess that the use of 4096 might make a difference in the sequence of
> > > read-modify-write cycles involved in the logical write operation.
> > 
> > You bring up an interesting point.  If the physical sector
> > is larger than the data being written how can the drive
> > reallocate the sector without silently losing data?
> > 
> > To put it in the concrete, if the physical sector were 16K
> > and we only do a 4K write and there is a unrecoverable read
> > error on the physical sector as part of the
> > read-modify-write sequence what is the drive to do?  The
> > other 12K for which the drive has no data could be other
> > files not related to the 4K being written or even filesystem
> > meta-data.  Reallocation in that case would cause silent
> > corruption.
> > 
> > Perhaps what finally allowed the reallocation was that the
> > entire physical sector finally accumulated writes to all the
> > logical sectors needed to be a complete physical sector
> > write.
> > 
> > -- 
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > 	J.W. Schultz            Pegasystems Technologies
> > 	email address:		jw@xxxxxxxxxx
> > 
> > 		Remember Cernan and Schmitt
> > -
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-- 
________________________________________________________________
	J.W. Schultz            Pegasystems Technologies
	email address:		jw@xxxxxxxxxx

		Remember Cernan and Schmitt
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