Re: Reiser4 Inclusion

From: gmu 2k6
Date: Mon Jul 17 2006 - 11:50:42 EST

the last time I've tried Reiser4 in -mm (4 - 6 weeks ago
approxamitely) I managed to oops by doing:
$ tar xfjv linux-2.6.17.tar.bz2
$ sync

I was calling sync because I was curious as to why XFS seemed to sync
all the time and look and feel slow when compared to ext3. So I
thought let's see what Reiser4 does and the moment I ran sync it
oopsed. Yes this could be a problem with that particular -mm version.

I'd be interested to hear whether this still happens.

no, I'm not making any statements about code quality just curious to
hear as you seem to be using Reiser4 successfully.

On 7/17/06, Grzegorz Kulewski <kangur@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jul 2006, Diego Calleja wrote:
> El Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:48:02 +0200 (CEST),
> Grzegorz Kulewski <kangur@xxxxxxxxxx> escribió:
>> If someone thinks that Reiser4 is too unstable or evil he can set it to N
>> and be happy. And if Reiser4 will be abandoned by Namesys and not fixed

I already read it when it was posted first. I am reading LKML and
reiserfs-list for several years and I already read all that arguments,
flames and so on that were ever pointed here. I think I have enough.

But if we are there:

""But just include it as experimental code regardless of everything,
reiser programmers will fix all the problems eventually!"

Well, no and yes. As said, nobody expects reiser 4 to be bug-free, but
there're some important issues that need to be fixed, the problems is
that reiser 4 is still working in the important ones. Some of the issues
fixed in the past included severe design issues, BTW. Others are about
being well integrated with Linux: duplication of kernel's own
functionality for no reason, etc. Every piece of code submitted needs to
have some quality - requesting developers to fix severe issues before
getting it into the main tree helps to have better code. If you ask
people people to fix those issues "in the future", they'll be lazy and
there'll be critical issues around all the time - this has happened in
Linux in the past. Quality is important, specially under a stable
development phase. Linux is already being critized a lot for merging new
features during this stable phase - that criticism happens with the
current quality control. Imagine what would happen if linux started to
merge things without caring a bit about what gets merged. Also, consider
what Reiser 4 is. It's a filesystem, once it gets included in the kernel
many people WILL use it and will DEPEND on it (your disk format is
reiser4): Linux needs to ensure that things don't blow up everything."

Why do some people think that users are not already depending on it? They
are. I don't know how much but I am willing to bet that at least 100
people. I think that there are some drivers in the kernel that have
smaller user base.

Keeping Reiser4 out of kernel is even worse (for those users, other users
that could test this filesystem, for Reiser4 developers and whole
comunity) than accepting it for a try period with a big fat warning that
it my be removed if Namesys abandons futher fixing of it (after some time
to let user migrate).

And any arguments like "if Reiser4 is not in the kernel then people will
not use and depend on it" are fundamentally flawed IMHO. Everything bad
that could happen with Reiser4 in the kernel can happen with Reiser4 out
of it.

It may look like some kernel developers are trying hard not to take
responsibility for Reiser4 saying that there is very huge difference
between selecting highly experimental kernel feature that is marked so and
patching the kernel with it. Sorry but I think there is very little
difference. And that little difference is only hurting users that want to
try and test something new.


Grzegorz Kulewski

PS. I really don't want to begin World War 4 about Reiser4. I just think
that curious people asking from time to time about _current_ Reiser4
status should not be treated bad because that could make them stop
testing and giving back to the open source projects.

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