Re: [patch 4/6] mm: merge populate and nopage into fault (fixes nonlinear)

[Nick Piggin]

On Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 12:48:06PM +0100, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-03-07 at 12:00 +0100, Nick Piggin wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 11:47:42AM +0100, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2007-03-07 at 11:38 +0100, Nick Piggin wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > > There are real users who want these fast, though.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Yeah, why don't we have a tree per nonlinear vma to find these pages?
> > > > > 
> > > > > wli mentions shadow page tables..
> > > > 
> > > > We could do something more efficient, but I thought that half the point
> > > > was that they didn't carry any of this extra memory, and they could be
> > > > really fast to set up at the expense of efficiency elsewhere.
> > > 
> > > I'm failing to understand this :-(
> > > 
> > > That extra memory, and apparently they don't want the inefficiency
> 
> s/T/W/
> 
> > > either.
> > 
> > Sorry, I didn't understand your misunderstandings ;)
> 
> Bah, my brain is thick and foggy today. Let us try again;
> 
> Nonlinear vmas exist because many vmas are expensive somehow, right?
> Nonlinear vmas keep the page mapping in the page tables and screw rmaps.
> 
> This 'extra memory' you mentioned would be the overhead of tracking the
> actual ranges?
> 
> And apparently now we want it to not suck on the rmap case :-(

Do we? I think just "work" is the way we've been handling them up until
now. Making them suck less for rmap makes them suck more for what they're
good at.

> Anyway, if used on a non writeback capable backing store (ramfs)
> page_mkclean will never be called. If also mlocked (I think oracle does
> this) then page reclaim will pass over too.
> 
> So we're only interested in the bdi_cap_accounting_dirty and VM_SHARED
> case, right?
> 
> Tracking these ranges on a per-vma basis would avoid taking the mm wide
> mmap_sem and so would be cheaper than regular vmas.
> 
> Would that still be too expensive?

Well you can today remap N pages in a file, arbitrarily for
sizeof(pte_t)*tiny bit for the upper page tables + small constant
for the vma.

At best, you need an extra pointer to pte / vaddr, so you'd basically
double memory overhead.

> > > Well, now they don't, but it could be done or even exploited as a DoS.
> > 
> > But so could nonlinear page reclaim. I think we need to restrict nonlinear
> > mappings to root if we're worried about that.
> 
> Can't we just 'fix' it?

The thing is, I don't think anybody who uses these things cares
about any of the 'problems' you want to fix, do they? We are
interested in dirty pages only for the correctness issue, rather
than performance. Same as reclaim.

-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/