RE: [tip:tracing/core] Revert "x86, bts: reenable ptrace branchtrace support"

[Metzger, Markus T]

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Metzger, Markus T
>Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 1:05 PM
>To: Ingo Molnar
>Cc: Peter Zijlstra; linux-kernel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; mingo@xxxxxxxxxx; hpa@xxxxxxxxx; oleg@xxxxxxxxxx;
>tglx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; linux-tip-commits@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: RE: [tip:tracing/core] Revert "x86, bts: reenable ptrace branch trace support"
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Ingo Molnar [mailto:mingo@xxxxxxx]
>>Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:41 PM
>>To: Metzger, Markus T
>>Cc: Peter Zijlstra; linux-kernel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; mingo@xxxxxxxxxx; hpa@xxxxxxxxx; oleg@xxxxxxxxxx;
>>tglx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; linux-tip-commits@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: Re: [tip:tracing/core] Revert "x86, bts: reenable ptrace branch trace support"
>>
>>
>>* Metzger, Markus T <markus.t.metzger@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> >-----Original Message-----
>>> >From: Ingo Molnar [mailto:mingo@xxxxxxx]
>>> >Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:22 PM
>>> >To: Peter Zijlstra
>>> >Cc: Metzger, Markus T; linux-kernel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; mingo@xxxxxxxxxx; hpa@xxxxxxxxx;
>>oleg@xxxxxxxxxx;
>>> >tglx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; linux-tip-commits@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >Subject: Re: [tip:tracing/core] Revert "x86, bts: reenable ptrace branch trace support"
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >* Peter Zijlstra <peterz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Thu, 2009-06-11 at 07:30 +0100, Metzger, Markus T wrote:
>>> >> > >-----Original Message-----
>>> >> > >From: tip-bot for Ingo Molnar [mailto:mingo@xxxxxxx]
>>> >> > >Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:37 AM
>>> >> > >To: linux-tip-commits@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >> > >Cc: hpa@xxxxxxxxx; mingo@xxxxxxxxxx; peterz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Metzger, Markus T;
>oleg@xxxxxxxxxx;
>>> >> > >tglx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; mingo@xxxxxxx
>>> >> > >Subject: [tip:tracing/core] Revert "x86, bts: reenable ptrace branch trace support"
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >Commit-ID:  511b01bdf64ad8a38414096eab283c7784aebfc4
>>> >> > >Gitweb:     http://git.kernel.org/tip/511b01bdf64ad8a38414096eab283c7784aebfc4
>>> >> > >Author:     Ingo Molnar <mingo@xxxxxxx>
>>> >> > >AuthorDate: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 00:32:00 +0200
>>> >> > >Committer:  Ingo Molnar <mingo@xxxxxxx>
>>> >> > >CommitDate: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 00:32:00 +0200
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >Revert "x86, bts: reenable ptrace branch trace support"
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >This reverts commit 7e0bfad24d85de7cf2202a7b0ce51de11a077b21.
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >A late objection to the ABI has arrived:
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >   http://lkml.org/lkml/2009/6/10/253
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I thought that this has been resolved. See for example http://lkml.org/lkml/2009/6/10/257.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Peters concerns were that Debug Store details are exposed to user space, which is
>>> >> > not the case. Debug Store itself is fully in-kernel and the expectation of a
>>> >> > user-defined buffer can be implemented on top of the Debug Store changes that
>>> >> > Peter expects are needed to support PEBS.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > A user-defined trace buffer size is required to support
>>> >> > different usage models. Some users only need a small amount of
>>> >> > trace, whereas others need a big amount. The interface will have
>>> >> > to reflect that in some way.
>>> >>
>>> >> Right, your last email did explain how we could keep per task
>>> >> in-kernel buffers and fill them from the DS and still have them of
>>> >> user-specified size.
>>> >>
>>> >> That would indeed keep the proposed ABI workable, what I'm still
>>> >> not liking is that this buffer is in-kernel, but I guess that
>>> >> might be something for other people to have an opinion on.
>>> >
>>> > Hm. Wrt. the ABI, wouldnt it make more sense to expose this PMU
>>> > feature via perfcounters: a sampling hw-branch-executions
>>> > counter, with interval=1.
>>> >
>>> > That would give the exact existing semantics, plus a lot lot
>>> > more. Markus?
>>>
>>> What more would we get?
>>
>>There's numerous direct functionality advantages:
>>
>> - We will get all the sampling features of perfcounters such as
>>   timed samples, CPU ID samples. Some will be approximate (timing),
>>   some precise (CPU ID).
>>
>> - We will get the advanced workflow isolation features: we could
>>   sample on a per CPU basis (system-wide BTS), and we could sample
>>   child tasks automatically. The current code is limited to a
>>   single task.
>>
>> - We will sample other types of information into the same outgoing
>>   event buffer: for example branch-miss events, intermixed with BTS
>>   records. This could help not just the narrow purpose of
>>   debugging, but also the purpose of performance analysis.
>>
>> - There's a rich and fast/efficient VFS based APIs to wait for
>>   event overflows: poll(), read(), mmap().
>>
>> - Remote sampling via perfcounters is transparent, while ptrace
>>   sampling can be seen by apps.
>>
>>There's maintenance advantages as well from the x86 architecture and
>>scheduler maintenance point of view:
>>
>> - We would have a single facility handling the Debug Store, and
>>   we'd have almost all pieces in place for PEBS support in
>>   perfcounters as well so there's good synergy.
>
>I'm not exactly sure what you are proposing.
>
>There currently is a single facility handling Debug Store which is used
>by perfmon for PEBS sampling and by BTS for branch tracing. The ptrace
>interface is a thin layer that allows debuggers to easily access the
>part that is relevant for them.
>
>
>Are you proposing a single abstraction of sampling and branch tracing events
>using records of different sizes in one big stream?

Ingo,

I did not hear from you.
Could you be a bit more specific about what you have in mind regarding this?

regards,
markus.
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