Re: [ATTEND] How to act on LKML

[Stefano Stabellini]

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013, Jiri Kosina wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Jul 2013, Stefano Stabellini wrote:
> 
> > > > I think that it's hurting Linux and in particular it's hurting
> > > > attracting new talents.
> > > 
> > > Then why do we have the largest # of developers than any other Open
> > > Source project?
> > 
> > Because Linux is the most widely used kernel, it's everywhere from
> > embedded devices to supercomputers.
> 
> And that's because ... ?
> 
> Yes, because the community has been very open since its very beginning 
> (and this is not "being open about why I hate you personally", but this is 
> "being open about what I think about your code").

Being open about what I think about your code doesn't mean that I can
feel free to verbally attack you.


> Plus there is a *LOT* of humor and sarcasm in all that. Which just 
> contributes to working on linux kernel being fun. I'd absolutely like to 
> keep that spirit.
> 
> If you guys now start telling others what is allowed and what is forbidden 
> to say, you are going to destroy this completely.
> 
> I don't want to be a part of a community where you have to read a legal 
> code before you can speak without fear of being accused of verbal 
> violence.
> 
> This just doesn't fit into how people of my culture see the world; hence, 
> I may even feel offended by Sarah's proposal (i.e. being very restrictive 
> about what I am allowed to say), actually. I like openness, I like 
> sarcasm, I like fun. Anyone who is trying to forbid this just doesn't fit 
> into my culture.

We should be able to prevent verbal abuses without involving legal,
right?
Would a NETIQUETTE file be enough, or would you consider that "legal
code"?


> > > Honestly, I think LKML over the years has become more tame. Yeah, back
> > > in 2005 it was rather harsh, but I don't really see that anymore. I
> > > don't see the nasty flame wars going on. Everything seems to be focused
> > > more on the technical side, and there's really very little personal
> > > attacks out there. Sure, with 15,000 emails a month, you get a few. And
> > > Linus will get fed up and burst. But they are really few and far
> > > between. And sometimes, a Linus burst gets things moving along much
> > > faster than being "professional". You think ARM would have gotten their
> > > act together as quick as they did if Linus didn't curse them out and
> > > threaten to stop pulling their crap?
> >  
> > I think there is a way to get the point across without cursing.
> 
> Maybe there is, maybe there is not.
> 
> I am not cursing in my e-mails, you are probably neither. Linus is. Others 
> are.
> 
> So what? He/they believe they achieves their goal through that mode of 
> operation (and very often they indeed do), as so do we, through different 
> means of communication.
> 
> No need to change anything anywhere. Please let everyone express their 
> feelings the way the believe it's best for achieving their goals, and do 
> the same.

There is a very fine line between cursing and what people might perceive
as a personal attack.
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