Re: [RFC PATCH 0/7] A General Accelerator Framework, WarpDrive

From: Kenneth Lee
Date: Sat Aug 11 2018 - 10:44:39 EST

å 2018å08æ10æ ææä 10:32 äå, Jerome Glisse åé:
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:39:13AM +0800, Kenneth Lee wrote:
On Thu, Aug 09, 2018 at 10:46:13AM -0400, Jerome Glisse wrote:
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 10:46:13 -0400
From: Jerome Glisse <jglisse@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: Kenneth Lee <liguozhu@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
CC: Kenneth Lee <>, "Tian, Kevin"
<kevin.tian@xxxxxxxxx>, Alex Williamson <alex.williamson@xxxxxxxxxx>,
Herbert Xu <herbert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "kvm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"
<kvm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Jonathan Corbet <corbet@xxxxxxx>, Greg
Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Zaibo Xu <xuzaibo@xxxxxxxxxx>,
"linux-doc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <linux-doc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Kumar, Sanjay K"
<sanjay.k.kumar@xxxxxxxxx>, Hao Fang <fanghao11@xxxxxxxxxx>,
"linux-kernel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <linux-kernel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
"linuxarm@xxxxxxxxxx" <linuxarm@xxxxxxxxxx>,
"iommu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <iommu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
"linux-crypto@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <linux-crypto@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Philippe
Ombredanne <pombredanne@xxxxxxxx>, Thomas Gleixner <tglx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
"David S . Miller" <davem@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 0/7] A General Accelerator Framework, WarpDrive
User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.0 (2018-05-17)
Message-ID: <20180809144613.GB3386@xxxxxxxxxx>

On Thu, Aug 09, 2018 at 04:03:52PM +0800, Kenneth Lee wrote:
On Wed, Aug 08, 2018 at 11:18:35AM -0400, Jerome Glisse wrote:
On Wed, Aug 08, 2018 at 09:08:42AM +0800, Kenneth Lee wrote:
å 2018å08æ06æ ææä 11:32 äå, Jerome Glisse åé:
On Mon, Aug 06, 2018 at 11:12:52AM +0800, Kenneth Lee wrote:
On Fri, Aug 03, 2018 at 10:39:44AM -0400, Jerome Glisse wrote:
On Fri, Aug 03, 2018 at 11:47:21AM +0800, Kenneth Lee wrote:
On Thu, Aug 02, 2018 at 10:22:43AM -0400, Jerome Glisse wrote:
On Thu, Aug 02, 2018 at 12:05:57PM +0800, Kenneth Lee wrote:

your mechanisms the userspace must have a specific userspace
drivers for each hardware and thus there are virtually no
differences between having this userspace driver open a device
file in vfio or somewhere else in the device filesystem. This is
just a different path.

The basic problem WarpDrive want to solve it to avoid syscall. This is important
to accelerators. We have some data here:

(see page 3)

The performance is different on using kernel and user drivers.
Yes and example i point to is exactly that. You have a one time setup
cost (creating command buffer binding PASID with command buffer and
couple other setup steps). Then userspace no longer have to do any
ioctl to schedule work on the GPU. It is all down from userspace and
it use a doorbell to notify hardware when it should go look at command
buffer for new thing to execute.

My point stands on that. You have existing driver already doing so
with no new framework and in your scheme you need a userspace driver.
So i do not see the value add, using one path or the other in the
userspace driver is litteraly one line to change.

Sorry, I'd got confuse here. I partially agree that the user driver is
redundance of kernel driver. (But for WarpDrive, the kernel driver is a full
driver include all preparation and setup stuff for the hardware, the user driver
is simply to send request and receive answer). Yes, it is just a choice of path.
But the user path is faster if the request come from use space. And to do that,
we need user land DMA support. Then why is it invaluable to let VFIO involved?
Some drivers in the kernel already do exactly what you said. The user
space emit commands without ever going into kernel by directly scheduling
commands and ringing a doorbell. They do not need VFIO either and they
can map userspace address into the DMA address space of the device and
again they do not need VFIO for that.
Could you please directly point out which driver you refer to here? Thank

Sub-directory of interest is amdkfd

Because it is a big driver here is a highlevel overview of how it works
(this is a simplification):
- Process can allocate GPUs buffer (through ioclt) and map them into
its address space (through mmap of device file at buffer object
specific offset).
- Process can map any valid range of virtual address space into device
address space (IOMMU mapping). This must be regular memory ie not an
mmap of a device file or any special file (this is the non PASID
- Process can create a command queue and bind its process to it aka
PASID, this is done through an ioctl.
- Process can schedule commands onto queues it created from userspace
without ioctl. For that it just write command into a ring buffer
that it mapped during the command queue creation process and it
rings a doorbell when commands are ready to be consume by the
- Commands can reference (access) all 3 types of object above ie
either full GPUs buffer, process regular memory maped as object
(non PASID) and PASID memory all at the same time ie you can
mix all of the above in same commands queue.
- Kernel can evict, unbind any process command queues, unbind commands
queue are still valid from process point of view but commands
process schedules on them will not be executed until kernel re-bind
the queue.
- Kernel can schedule commands itself onto its dedicated command
queues (kernel driver create its own command queues).
- Kernel can control priorities between all the queues ie it can
decides which queues should the hardware executed first next.

Thank you. Now I think I understand the point. Indeed, I can see some drivers,
such GPU and IB, attach their own iommu_domain to their iommu_group and do their
own iommu_map().

But we have another requirement which is to combine some device together to
share the same address space. This is a little like these kinds of solution:

With that, the application can directly pass the NiC packet pointer to the
decryption accelerator, and get the bare data in place. This is the feature that
the VFIO container can provide.
Yes and GPU would very much like do the same. There is already out of
tree solution that allow NiC to stream into GPU memory or GPU to stream
its memory to a NiC. I am sure we will want to use more accelerator in
conjunction with GPU in the future.

I believe all of the above are the aspects that matters to you. The main
reason i don't like creating a new driver infrastructure is that a lot
of existing drivers will want to use some of the new features that are
coming (memory topology, where to place process memory, pipeline devices,
...) and thus existing drivers are big (GPU drivers are the biggest of
all the kernel drivers).

I think it is not necessarily to rewrite the GPU driver if they don't need to
share their space with others. But if they do, no matter how, they have to create
some facility similar to VFIO container. Then why not just create them in VFIO?
No they do not, nor does anyone needs to. We already have that. If you want
device to share memory object you have either:
- PASID and everything is just easy no need to create anything, as
all valid virtual address will work
- no PASID or one of the device does not support PASID then use the
existing kernel infrastructure aka dma buffer see Documentation/

Everything you want to do is already happening upstream and they are allready
working example.
OK, I accept it.

Actually, some GPUs have already used mdev to manage the resource by different
users, it is already part of VFIO.
The current use of mdev with GPU is to "emulate" the SR_IOV of PCIE in
software so that a single device can be share between multiple guests.
For this using VFIO make sense, as we want to expose device as a single
entity that can be manage without the userspace (QEMU) having to know
or learn about each individual devices.

QEMU just has a well define API to probe and attach device to guest.
It is the guest that have dedicated drivers for each of those mdev


What you are trying to do is recreate a whole driver API inside the
VFIO subsystem and i do not see any valid reasons for that. Moreover
you want to restrict future use to only drivers that are part of this
new driver subsystem and again i do not see any good reasons to
mandate any of the existing driver to be rewritten inside a new VFIO

I think you have persuaded me now. I thought VFIO was the only unified place to do
user land DMA operations. So I tried to make use of it even there was facility I
needed not.

Thank you very much for the help.

You can achieve everything you want to achieve with existing upstream
solution. Re-inventing a whole new driver infrastructure should really
be motivated with strong and obvious reasons.
I want to understand better of your idea. If I create some unified helper
APIs in drivers/iommu/, say:

wd_create_dev(parent_dev, wd_dev)

The API create chrdev to take request from user space for open(resource
allocation), iomap, epoll (irq), and dma_map(with pasid automatically).

Do you think it is acceptable?

I agree that these all can be done with the driver itself. But without a unified
interface, it is hard to create a user land ecosystem for accelerator to
I am fine with creating a new sub-system for pipelining devices (ie some
place where it is easy for userspace to get list of all devices that can
fit in such model). I am not sure if we want to have everything part of
it (ie DMA mapping of memory and pipelining as same thing) i tend to be
more unix oriented one tool for one job. But maybe it makes sense, this
would likely avoid having each device driver have their own code to
create dma buffer or track SVM pointer.
Yes. The subsystem will become the point to bind the pasid and the allocated resource between the hardware and the process. The io space mapping and command queuing can always be done by the original device driver itself. The subsystem can remain in resource (hardware resource and iommu resource) management.

In any case for the non SVM case i would suggest to use dma buffer, it
has been widely use, it is well tested in many scenarios. Moreover it
would allow many existing device driver to register themself in this
new framework with minimal changes (couple hundred lines).
I will consider it. But maybe I should solve the SVM case first.

Thanks again. You suggestion is very helpful.