Re: [LSF/MM TOPIC] Discuss least bad options for resolving longterm-GUP usage by RDMA
From: Dan Williams
Date: Mon Feb 11 2019 - 12:23:14 EST
On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 2:24 AM Jan Kara <jack@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Fri 08-02-19 12:50:37, Dan Williams wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 3:11 AM Jan Kara <jack@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri 08-02-19 15:43:02, Dave Chinner wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Feb 07, 2019 at 04:55:37PM +0000, Christopher Lameter wrote:
> > > > > One approach that may be a clean way to solve this:
> > > > > 3. Filesystems that allow bypass of the page cache (like XFS / DAX) will
> > > > > provide the virtual mapping when the PIN is done and DO NO OPERATIONS
> > > > > on the longterm pinned range until the long term pin is removed.
> > > >
> > > > So, ummm, how do we do block allocation then, which is done on
> > > > demand during writes?
> > > >
> > > > IOWs, this requires the application to set up the file in the
> > > > correct state for the filesystem to lock it down so somebody else
> > > > can write to it. That means the file can't be sparse, it can't be
> > > > preallocated (i.e. can't contain unwritten extents), it must have zeroes
> > > > written to it's full size before being shared because otherwise it
> > > > exposes stale data to the remote client (secure sites are going to
> > > > love that!), they can't be extended, etc.
> > > >
> > > > IOWs, once the file is prepped and leased out for RDMA, it becomes
> > > > an immutable for the purposes of local access.
> > > >
> > > > Which, essentially we can already do. Prep the file, map it
> > > > read/write, mark it immutable, then pin it via the longterm gup
> > > > interface which can do the necessary checks.
> > >
> > > Hum, and what will you do if the immutable file that is target for RDMA
> > > will be a source of reflink? That seems to be currently allowed for
> > > immutable files but RDMA store would be effectively corrupting the data of
> > > the target inode. But we could treat it similarly as swapfiles - those also
> > > have to deal with writes to blocks beyond filesystem control. In fact the
> > > similarity seems to be quite large there. What do you think?
> > This sounds so familiar...
> > https://lwn.net/Articles/726481/
> > I'm not opposed to trying again, but leases was what crawled out
> > smoking crater when this last proposal was nuked.
> Umm, don't think this is that similar to daxctl() discussion. We are not
> speaking about providing any new userspace API for this.
I thought explicit userspace API was one of the outcomes, i.e. that we
can't depend on this behavior being an implicit side effect of a page
> Also I think the
> situation about leases has somewhat cleared up with this discussion - ODP
> hardware does not need leases since it can use MMU notifiers, for non-ODP
> hardware it is difficult to handle leases as such hardware has only one big
> kill-everything call and using that would effectively mean lot of work on
> the userspace side to resetup everything to make things useful if workable
> at all.
> So my proposal would be:
> 1) ODP hardward uses gup_fast() like direct IO and uses MMU notifiers to do
> its teardown when fs needs it.
> 2) Hardware not capable of tearing down pins from MMU notifiers will have
> to use gup_longterm() (we may actually rename it to a more suitable name).
> FS may just refuse such calls (for normal page cache backed file, it will
> just return success but for DAX file it will do sanity checks whether the
> file is fully allocated etc. like we currently do for swapfiles) but if
> gup_longterm() returns success, it will provide the same guarantees as for
> swapfiles. So the only thing that we need is some call from gup_longterm()
> to a filesystem callback to tell it - this file is going to be used by a
> third party as an IO buffer, don't touch it. And we can (and should)
> probably refactor the handling to be shared between swapfiles and
Yes, lets pursue this. At the risk of "arguing past 'yes'" this is a
solution I thought we dax folks walked away from in the original
MAP_DIRECT discussion . Here is where leases were the response to
MAP_DIRECT . ...and here is where we had tame discussions about
implications of notifying memory-registrations of lease break events
I honestly don't like the idea that random subsystems can pin down
file blocks as a side effect of gup on the result of mmap. Recall that
it's not just RDMA that wants this guarantee. It seems safer to have
the file be in an explicit block-allocation-immutable-mode so that the
fallocate man page can describe this error case. Otherwise how would
you describe the scenarios under which FALLOC_FL_PUNCH_HOLE fails?