Re: [RFC]: shmem fd for non-DMA buffer sharing cross drivers

[Pekka Paalanen]

On Fri, 25 Aug 2023 15:56:18 +0800
Hsia-Jun Li <Randy.Li@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> On 8/25/23 15:40, Pekka Paalanen wrote:
> > Subject:
> > Re: [RFC]: shmem fd for non-DMA buffer sharing cross drivers
> > From:
> > Pekka Paalanen <ppaalanen@xxxxxxxxx>
> > Date:
> > 8/25/23, 15:40
> > 
> > To:
> > Hsia-Jun Li <Randy.Li@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > CC:
> > Tomasz Figa <tfiga@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, linux-mm@xxxxxxxxx, 
> > dri-devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Linux Media Mailing List 
> > <linux-media@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, hughd@xxxxxxxxxx, 
> > akpm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Simon Ser <contact@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Hans Verkuil 
> > <hverkuil-cisco@xxxxxxxxx>, daniels@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, ayaka 
> > <ayaka@xxxxxxxxxxx>, linux-kernel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Nicolas Dufresne 
> > <nicolas@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 15:11:23 +0800
> > Hsia-Jun Li<Randy.Li@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
> >   
> >> On 8/23/23 12:46, Tomasz Figa wrote:  
> >>> CAUTION: Email originated externally, do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi Hsia-Jun,
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Aug 22, 2023 at 8:14 PM Hsia-Jun Li<Randy.Li@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>  wrote:  
> >>>> Hello
> >>>>
> >>>> I would like to introduce a usage of SHMEM slimier to DMA-buf, the major
> >>>> purpose of that is sharing metadata or just a pure container for cross
> >>>> drivers.
> >>>>
> >>>> We need to exchange some sort of metadata between drivers, likes dynamic
> >>>> HDR data between video4linux2 and DRM.  
> >>> If the metadata isn't too big, would it be enough to just have the
> >>> kernel copy_from_user() to a kernel buffer in the ioctl code?
> >>>      
> >>>> Or the graphics frame buffer is
> >>>> too complex to be described with plain plane's DMA-buf fd.
> >>>> An issue between DRM and V4L2 is that DRM could only support 4 planes
> >>>> while it is 8 for V4L2. It would be pretty hard for DRM to expend its
> >>>> interface to support that 4 more planes which would lead to revision of
> >>>> many standard likes Vulkan, EGL.  
> >>> Could you explain how a shmem buffer could be used to support frame
> >>> buffers with more than 4 planes?
> >>> If you are asking why we need this:  
> >> 1. metadata likes dynamic HDR tone data
> >> 2. DRM also challenges with this problem, let me quote what sima said:
> >> "another trick that we iirc used for afbc is that sometimes the planes
> >> have a fixed layout
> >> like nv12
> >> and so logically it's multiple planes, but you only need one plane slot
> >> to describe the buffer
> >> since I think afbc had the "we need more than 4 planes" issue too"
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, there are vendor pixel formats are not fixed layout.
> >>
> >> 3. Secure(REE, trusted video piepline) info.
> >>
> >> For how to assign such metadata data.
> >> In case with a drm fb_id, it is simple, we just add a drm plane property
> >> for it. The V4L2 interface is not flexible, we could only leave into
> >> CAPTURE request_fd as a control.  
> >>>> Also, there is no reason to consume a device's memory for the content
> >>>> that device can't read it, or wasting an entry of IOMMU for such data.  
> >>> That's right, but DMA-buf doesn't really imply any of those. DMA-buf
> >>> is just a kernel object with some backing memory. It's up to the
> >>> allocator to decide how the backing memory is allocated and up to the
> >>> importer on whether it would be mapped into an IOMMU.
> >>>      
> >> I just want to say it can't be allocated at the same place which was for
> >> those DMA bufs(graphics or compressed bitstream).
> >> This also could be answer for your first question, if we place this kind
> >> of buffer in a plane for DMABUF(importing) in V4L2, V4L2 core would try
> >> to prepare it, which could map it into IOMMU.
> >>  
> >>>> Usually, such a metadata would be the value should be written to a
> >>>> hardware's registers, a 4KiB page would be 1024 items of 32 bits registers.
> >>>>
> >>>> Still, I have some problems with SHMEM:
> >>>> 1. I don't want the userspace modify the context of the SHMEM allocated
> >>>> by the kernel, is there a way to do so?  
> >>> This is generally impossible without doing any of the two:
> >>> 1) copying the contents to an internal buffer not accessible to the
> >>> userspace, OR
> >>> 2) modifying any of the buffer mappings to read-only
> >>>
> >>> 2) can actually be more costly than 1) (depending on the architecture,
> >>> data size, etc.), so we shouldn't just discard the option of a simple
> >>> copy_from_user() in the ioctl.
> >>>      
> >> I don't want the userspace access it at all. So that won't be a problem.  
> > Hi,
> > 
> > if userspace cannot access things like an image's HDR metadata, then it
> > will be impossible for userspace to program KMS to have the correct
> > color pipeline, or to send intended HDR metadata to a video sink.
> > 
> > You cannot leave userspace out of HDR metadata handling, because quite
> > probably the V4L2 buffer is not the only thing on screen. That means
> > there must composition of multiple sources with different image
> > properties and metadata, which means it is no longer obvious what HDR
> > metadata should be sent to the video sink.
> > 
> > Even if it is a TV-like application rather than a windowed desktop, you
> > will still have other contents to composite: OSD (volume indicators,
> > channels indicators, program guide, ...), sub-titles, channel logos,
> > notifications... These components ideally should not change their
> > appearance arbitrarily with the main program content and metadata
> > changes. Either the metadata sent to the video sink is kept static and
> > the main program adapted on the fly, or main program metadata is sent
> > to the video sink and the additional content is adapted on the fly.
> > 
> > There is only one set of HDR metadata and one composited image that can
> > be sent to a video sink, so both must be chosen and produced correctly
> > at the source side. This cannot be done automatically inside KMS kernel
> > drivers.
> >   
> There may be some misunderstanding.
> Let suppose this HDR data is in a vendor specific format.
> Both upstream(decoder) and downstream(DRM) hardware devices are coming 
> from the same vendor.
> Then we just need to delivery the reference to this metadata buffer from 
> the upstream to downstream, both of drivers know how to handle it.
> 
> Despite the userspace, we just need to extend a wayland protocol that 
> making wayland compositor know how to receive the reference to the 
> metadata and set it to the DRM plane.

Hi,

FWIW, I don't think Wayland upstream (wayland-protocols) would be any
more welcoming to opaque vendor-specific proprietary data blobs than the
upstream Linux.

(To everyone not following #dri-devel: There was a fairly long IRC
discussion about how HDR metadata is an exceptionally poor use case
example for "hidden" ancillary data blobs, and then continuing to how a
mechanism to pass proprietary data blobs around would not be accepted
upstream:
https://oftc.irclog.whitequark.org/dri-devel/2023-08-25#1692950883-1692960435;
)

> If you want a common HDR formats for all HDR variants(HDR10+, DV), I am 
> not against it. But it won't make the userspace be able to fill the HDR 
> metadata even the HDR data comes from the bitstream(likes SEI). We must 
> consider the case of Secure Video Path(Digital Right), the bitstream is 
> not accessible from (REE) userspace nor linux kernel, the downstream 
> must take what the upstream feed.

In that case, Secure Video Path is simply not possible to have (in
upstream). Keeping actual pixels restricted is one thing, and
understandable given they are the essence of the copyrighted material
that the providers want to keep inaccessible. Not being able to deliver
the metadata to userspace OTOH does not seem to have any justification
in comparison.


Thanks,
pq

> >>>> 2. Should I create a helper function for installing the SHMEM file as a fd?  
> >>> We already have the udmabuf device [1] to turn a memfd into a DMA-buf,
> >>> so maybe that would be enough?
> >>>
> >>> [1]https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/v6.5-rc7/source/drivers/dma-buf/udmabuf.c
> >>>      
> >> It is the kernel driver that allocate this buffer. For example, v4l2
> >> CAPTURE allocate a buffer for metadata when VIDIOC_REQBUFS.
> >> Or GBM give you a fd which is assigned with a surface.
> >>
> >> So we need a kernel interface.  
> >>> Best,
> >>> Tomasz
> >>>      
> >>>> --
> >>>> Hsia-Jun(Randy) Li  
> >   
>

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