Re: [PATCH v8 23/46] KVM: TDX: Make source page optional for KVM_TDX_INIT_MEM_REGION

[Yan Zhao]

On Fri, Jun 26, 2026 at 08:28:32AM -0700, Ackerley Tng wrote:
> Yan Zhao <yan.y.zhao@xxxxxxxxx> writes:
> 
> > On Thu, Jun 25, 2026 at 05:07:23PM -0700, Ackerley Tng wrote:
> >> Yan Zhao <yan.y.zhao@xxxxxxxxx> writes:
> >>
> >> > On Wed, Jun 24, 2026 at 04:00:32PM -0700, Ackerley Tng wrote:
> >> >> Sean Christopherson <seanjc@xxxxxxxxxx> writes:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Tue, Jun 23, 2026, Yan Zhao wrote:
> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2026 at 01:16:14PM +0800, Yan Zhao wrote:
> >> >> >> > On Mon, Jun 22, 2026 at 06:22:45PM -0700, Sean Christopherson wrote:
> >> >> >> > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2026, Yan Zhao wrote:
> >> >> >> > > > On Thu, Jun 18, 2026 at 05:32:00PM -0700, Ackerley Tng via B4 Relay wrote:
> >> >> >> > > > > diff --git a/arch/x86/kvm/vmx/tdx.c b/arch/x86/kvm/vmx/tdx.c
> >> >> >> > > > > index ffe9d0db58c59..56d10333c61a7 100644
> >> >> >> > > > > --- a/arch/x86/kvm/vmx/tdx.c
> >> >> >> > > > > +++ b/arch/x86/kvm/vmx/tdx.c
> >> >> >> > > > > @@ -3198,8 +3198,12 @@ static int tdx_gmem_post_populate(struct kvm *kvm, gfn_t gfn, kvm_pfn_t pfn,
> >> >> >> > > > >  	if (KVM_BUG_ON(kvm_tdx->page_add_src, kvm))
> >> >> >> > > > >  		return -EIO;
> >> >> >> > > > >
> >> >> >> > > > > -	if (!src_page)
> >> >> >> > > > > -		return -EOPNOTSUPP;
> >> >> >> > > > > +	if (!src_page) {
> >> >> >> > > > > +		if (!gmem_in_place_conversion)
> >> >> >> > > > When userspace turns on gmem_in_place_conversion while creating guest_memfd
> >> >> >> > > > without the MMAP flag, the absence of src_page should still be treated as an
> >> >> >> > > > error.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Why MMAP?
> >> >> >> > Hmm, I was showing a scenario that in-place conversion couldn't occur.
> >> >> >> > I didn't mean that with the MMAP flag, mmap() and user write must occur.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > > Shouldn't this be a general "if (!src_page && !up-to-date)"?  Just
> >> >> >> > > because userspace _can_ mmap() the memory doesn't mean userspace _has_ mmap()'d
> >> >> >> > > and written memory.  And when write() lands, MMAP wouldn't be necessary to
> >> >> >> > > initialize the memory.
> >> >> >> > Do you mean using up-to-date flag as below?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Yes?  I didn't actually look at the implementation details.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > if (!src_page) {
> >> >> >> > 	src_page = pfn_to_page(pfn);
> >> >> >> > 	if (!folio_test_uptodate(page_folio(src_page)))
> >> >> >> > 		return -EOPNOTSUPP;
> >> >> >> > }
> >> >>
> >> >> Yan is right that with the earlier patch "Zero page while getting pfn",
> >> >> folio_test_uptodate() here will always return true.
> >> >>
> >> >> Actually, this is an alternative fix for the issue Sashiko pointed out
> >> >> on v7 where userspace can do a populate() (either TDX or SNP) without
> >> >> first allocating the page, with src_address == NULL, and leak
> >> >> uninitialized memory into the guest.
> >> >>
> >> >> Advantage of using the uptodate check in populate: if the host never
> >> >> allocates the page, populate doesn't incur zeroing before writing the
> >> >> page anyway in populate().
> >> >>
> >> >> Disadvantage: Both TDX and SNP will have to implement this uptodate
> >> >> check. guest_memfd can't check centrally because for SNP, for a
> >> >> PAGE_TYPE_ZERO, !src_page should be allowed with a !uptodate page since
> >> >> firmware will zero and there's no leakage of uninitialized host memory?
> >> > Another disadvantage: the uptodate flag is per-folio. What if the folio
> >> > is only partially initialized by the userspace especially after huge page is
> >> > supported?
> >> >
> >>
> >> Good point on huge pages!
> >>
> >> The uptodate flag on the folio in guest_memfd means "this folio has been
> >> written to". As of now (before patch at [1]), this happens when
> >>
> >> + folio is zeroed on first use by userspace
> >> + folio is zeroed on first use of the guest
> >> + folio is populated
> >>
> >> When huge pages are supported, the folio can't partially be initialized?
> >>
> >> On allocation, if any part is shared, we split the page. The parts are
> >> separate folios that have their own uptodate flags.
> >>
> >> On splitting, if the huge page is uptodate, the split pages will also be
> >> uptodate. If the huge page is not uptodate, the split pages won't be
> >> uptodate, but that's ok since they will be marked uptodate on first use.
> >>
> >> On merging, the non-uptodate parts have to be zeroed and then marked
> > If that's true, it would be good.
> >
> >> uptodate. Any parts that are in use would have been marked uptodate
> >> already, so there's no overwriting data that is in use. I'll need to
> >> think more about when it's safe to zero.
> >>
> >> I'm still on the fence between the two options
> >>
> >> 1. Using uptodate check in populate to reject src_pages that have never
> >>    been written to or
> >> 2. Always zero before populate
> > 2 does not work?
> > The flow is
> > 1. mmap gmem_fd, make GFN shared, and write initial content.
> > 2. convert GFN to private
> > 3. invoke ioctl to trigger populate.
> >
> 
> This flow is correct, is what users of in-place conversion should do.
> 
> "Always" is the wrong word, I should have said "zero if not uptodate
> before populate", as in, with patch at [1].
> 
> By doing the zeroing in __kvm_gmem_get_pfn instead, by the time populate
> gets the pfn, the page would be zeroed, either because userspace faulted
> it in, and the zeroing happened in kvm_gmem_fault_user_mapping(), or if
> userspace never faulted it in, the zeroing would happen because
> populate() allocated the page.

I see.

> >> but whether the uptodate flag is per-folio or not doesn't affect these
> >> two options in terms of fixing the leak of uninitialized host memory,
> >> right?
> > yes, provided "On merging, the non-uptodate parts have to be zeroed and then
> > marked uptodate".
> >
> 
> Thank you so much for bringing this up, I hadn't considered this
> before. I'll do that when I get to guest_memfd hugepage restructuring.
> 
> >> >
> >> >> >> Another concern with this fix is that:
> >> >> >> commit "KVM: guest_memfd: Zero page while getting pfn" [1] always marks the
> >> >> >> folio uptodate before reaching post_populate().
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> [1] https://lore.kernel.org/all/20260618-gmem-inplace-conversion-v8-21-9d2959357853@xxxxxxxxxx/
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > One concern is that TDX now does not much care about the up-to-date flag since
> >> >> >> > TDX doesn't rely on the flag to clear pages on conversions.
> >> >> >> > I'm not sure if the flag can be reliably checked in this case. e.g.,
> >> >> >> > now the whole folio is marked up-to-date even if only part of it is faulted by
> >> >> >> > user access.
> >> >> >> > Ensuring that the up-to-date flag works correctly with huge page support seems
> >> >> >> > to have more effort than introducing a dedicated flag for TDX.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > > > Additionally, to properly enable in-place copying for the TDX initial memory
> >> >> >> > > > region, userspace must not only specify source_addr to NULL, but also follow
> >> >> >> > > > a specific sequence (where steps 1/2/3/7 are required only for in-place copy):
> >> >> >> > > > 1. create guest_memfd with MMAP flag
> >> >> >> > > > 2. mmap the guest_memfd.
> >> >> >> > > > 3. convert the initial memory range to shared.
> >> >> >> > > > 4. copy initial content to the source page.
> >> >> >> > > > 5. convert the initial memory range to private
> >> >> >> > > > 6. invoke ioctl KVM_TDX_INIT_MEM_REGION.
> >> >> >> > > > 7. do not unmap the source backend.
> >> >> >> > > >
> >> >> >> > > > So, would it be reasonable to introduce a dedicated flag that allows userspace
> >> >> >> > > > to explicitly opt into the in-place copy functionality? e.g.,
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Why?  It's userspace's responsibility to get the above right.  If userspace fails
> >> >> >> > > to provide a src_page when it doesn't want in-place copy, that's a userspace bug.
> >> >>
> >> >> Yan, is your concern that userspace forgot to update the code and
> >> >> forgets to provide a src_page, and if we keep the "Zero page while
> >> > Yes. Previously, it would be rejected after GUP fails.
> >> >
> >>
> >> I see, didn't realize previously it would be rejected because GUP
> >> fails. GUP failed because it wasn't faulted into the host?
> > GUP fails if 0 is not a valid user address.
> > But GUP would not fail if 0 is a valid address. e.g., in below scenario:
> >
> > #include <sys/mman.h>
> > #include <stdio.h>
> > int main(void)
> > {
> >         void *p=mmap((void*)0,4096,PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_FIXED|MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS,-1,0);
> >         if (p==MAP_FAILED) {
> >                 perror("mmap");
> >                 return 1;
> >         }
> >         *(char*)0='Y';
> >         printf("addr0=%p val=%c\n",p,*(char*)0);
> >         return 0;
> > }
> >
> >
> >> That's kind of orthogonal, I don't think GUP fail leading to rejecting
> >> populate was meant to help userspace catch these issues. GUP would also
> >> fail if the user did mmap(), write to it, unmap using
> >> madvise(MADV_DONTNEED), then forget and pass 0 as src_address.
> > The original uAPI did not explicitly define 0 as an invalid uaddr. Whether 0 was
> > rejected depended on whether the user mmap()'d address 0. If 0 was a valid
> > mapping, populate() could proceed.
> >
> > commit 2a62345b3052 ("KVM: guest_memfd: GUP source pages prior to populating
> > guest memory") changed the behavior though. It would return -EOPNOTSUPP for a 0
> > uaddr.
> >
> 
> I see, I only looked at this after commit 2a62345b3052.
> 
> > But if a user configures 0 uaddr as valid, writes to it, and then passes 0 as
> > source_addr(not from gmem), I'm not sure if it's good for the kernel to silently
> > treat 0 uaddr as an identifier for in-place copy from the private PFN in gmem.
> >
> 
> I'd say the original uAPI perhaps just didn't document 0 as an
> unsupported uaddr. Given that commit 2a62345b3052 already merged, uAPI
> was perhaps accidentally changed and no customer complained, I think we
> can move forward with 0 as an invalid src_address? I wouldn't think
> anyone relies on 0 intentionally being a valid address.
> 
> I could document that, if it helps?
What about just documenting that 0 is an unsupported uaddr which will be
re-purposed as an indicator to use the target pfn as the source, regardless of
whether gmem_in_place_conversion is true? i.e.,

if (!src_page) 
	src_page = pfn_to_page(pfn);

I don't get why the two scenarios should be treated differently:
1. gmem_in_place_conversion==true, shared memory is not from gmem 
2. gmem_in_place_conversion==false, shared memory is not from gmem

In both case, a 0 uaddr could be mapped to a valid page not from gmem.
So why not update the uAPI to handle both cases consistently? :) 

> >> >> getting pfn" patch, ends up with the guest silently having a zero page?
> >> >> I think that would be found quite early in userspace VMM testing...
> >> > I actually encountered this during testing this patch.
> >> > I update most code path to follow this sequence. However, still some corner ones
> >> > for TDVF HOB, which are less obvious and harder to update.
> >> > The TD just booted up and hang silently.
> >> >
> >>
> >> I think this is just the life of a close-to-hardware software engineer
> >> :P no errors, got stuck somewhere, root cause is some unitialized
> >> thing.
> >>
> >> >> >> > I mean if userspace specifies a NULL source_addr by mistake, it's better for
> >> >> >> > kernel to detect this mistake, similar to how it validates whether source_addr
> >> >> >> > is PAGE_ALIGNED.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The alignment case is different.  If userspace provides an unaligned value, KVM
> >> >> > *can't* do what userspace is asking because hardware and thus KVM only supports
> >> >> > converting on page boundaries.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > For a NULL source, KVM can still do what userspace is asking.  Rejecting userspace's
> >> >> > request would then be making assumptions about what userspace wants.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Also, +1 on this, what if userspace, knowing that pages are zeroed on
> >> >> allocation, actually wants to rely on that to get a zero page in the guest?
> >> > What if 0 uaddr is a valid address? :)
> >> >
> >> >> >> > Since userspace already needs to perform additional steps to enable in-place
> >> >> >> > copy, specifying a dedicated flag to indicate that the NULL source_addr is
> >> >> >> > intentional seems like a reasonable burden.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I don't see how it adds any value.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if most VMMs
> >> >> > just wen up with code that does:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 	if (in-place) {
> >> >> > 		src = NULL;
> >> >> > 		flags |= KVM_TDX_IN_PLACE_COPY_INITIAL_MEMORY_REGION;
> >> >> > 	}
> >> >>