Re: [PATCH v2] docs: zh_TW: process: localize terminologies and improve fluency in 8.Conclusion

[葉宸佑]

Here is the inventory I promised, from checktransupdate.py on mainline:

  zh_TW:  51 translated files, all out of date
          221 distinct English commits to catch up with

    process/      14 files
    admin-guide/  15
    arch/         12
    dev-tools/     5
    filesystems/   3
    cpu-freq/      1
    index.rst      1

For calibration I ran the same tool on zh_CN: 178 translated files,
also all out of date, 639 distinct commits behind. So in terms of
drift from the English originals, zh_TW is not in a categorically
different state from zh_CN -- the real gap is coverage (51 vs 178
files), not decay. That makes me more optimistic than the "two years
of stagnation" framing suggests: many zh_TW files are only behind by
a typo fix or two.

(The ~3300 documents with no Chinese translation at all are out of
scope for both locales, so I do not think that is the problem to
solve first.)

One thing I noticed while reading the script: checktransupdate.py
tracks the base commit accurately only when the translation commit
message contains "update to commit HASH" (or "Update the translation
through commit HASH"); otherwise it falls back to guessing from author
dates. Adopting that convention for zh_TW commits from now on would
make the tool's numbers reliable, and it costs nothing. Perhaps that
could be part of the "more reasonable workflow" Weijie mentioned.

My suggestion for the first step is process/ (14 files): it is where
new contributors land first, it is small enough to finish as one
series, and it is where the terminology differences are most visible.
I would fold the pending 8.Conclusion patch into that series and build
the glossary from it.

葉宸佑 <chenyou910331@xxxxxxxxx> 於 2026年7月13日週一 下午2:35寫道：
>
> Hi Dongliang, Weijie,
>
> Thank you both -- this is more support than I expected, and I am glad
> to do this together.
>
> > Chen-Yu, I would like to serve as co-maintainers to help maintain zh_TW.
> > [...]
> > As discussed with Alex before, maybe zh_TW patches can first go to
> > Alex's kernel tree and then push to Jon's tree. I am not sure if you are
> > familar with the maintainer workflow. If not, this solution may be
> > better for you to learn maintainer workflow.
>
> To be honest: no, I am not familiar with the maintainer workflow yet --
> so far I have only been on the contributor side. So routing zh_TW
> patches through Alex's tree first sounds like the right arrangement to
> me, both for reliability and so that I can learn the workflow properly
> before taking on more. Alex, if you are fine with this, thank you in
> advance.
>
> > I suggest that we could try out the provisional plan for about one or
> > two months (depends), and then make a formal change.
>
> Agreed. A trial period before touching MAINTAINERS is fair -- it lets
> the work speak first. I will send the MAINTAINERS patch when you both
> feel the arrangement has proven itself.
>
> >   * Considering that English documents are changing so rapidly, and even
> >     simplified Chinese cannot keep up with them immediately. I suggest
> >     we start working on catching up with simplified Chinese right now,
> >     which seems like a good place to begin.
>
> This matches what I had in mind, and it also answers Alex's concern:
> zh_TW should track zh_CN in structure and coverage, and differ only in
> terminology. I will start by running checktransupdate.py over zh_TW to
> get a concrete inventory of what is stale and how far behind we are,
> and share the result here so we can prioritize together.
>
> > re-translation may be more efficient.
>
> Agreed for the badly outdated files -- patching a two-year-old
> translation line by line is likely more work than translating the
> current text afresh. The inventory should tell us which files fall
> into which category.
>
> > https://zh.wikibooks.org/wiki/%E5%A4%A7%E9%99%86%E5%8F%B0%E6%B9%BE%E8%AE%A1%E7%AE%97%E6%9C%BA%E6%9C%AF%E8%AF%AD%E5%AF%B9%E7%85%A7%E8%A1%A8
> >
> > Is it comprehensive? I don't know. Perhaps we could add some specific
> > reference tables related to the Linux Kernel on top of it.
>
> As a native speaker: it is a reasonable general reference, but it is
> not kernel-specific, and some entries are dated or not what people
> actually write in Taiwan today. I would rather build the glossary
> bottom-up from the terms that actually appear in the kernel docs
> (軟體/軟件, 介面/接口, 記憶體, 行程, 核心, 佇列, ...), and use the
> wikibooks table only as a cross-check. I will include the glossary as
> part of the first terminology series so it can be reviewed like any
> other patch.
>
> > Perhaps I can handle most of the operation and maintenance tasks of
> > chore, giving Chen-yu more time and concentration to focus on the actual
> > translation work.
>
> That would help a lot, thank you. It also sounds like a natural split:
> you on process and monitoring, me on the translation and the zh_TW
> terminology judgement.
>
> One last thing about the patch that started all this: rather than
> keeping the v2 for 8.Conclusion pending, I would suggest dropping it
> and folding its changes into the terminology series, so the fixes
> land in one consistent batch. Any objection?
>
> Thanks,
> Chen-Yu
>
> Weijie Yuan <wy@xxxxxxxxx> 於 2026年7月13日週一 下午1:33寫道：
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2026 at 10:44:12AM +0800, 葉宸佑 wrote:
> > > Hi Weijie,
> > >
> > > > I suspect that some contributors would run the get_maintainers.pl script
> > > > or b4 prep --auto-to-cc, so they did not cc Alex, as they didn't know
> > > > the current situation. Because I noticed that for both two versions,
> > > > Chen-yu didn't cc Alex or Dongliang or Yanteng. Am I right, @Chen-yu? ;-)
> > >
> > > Yes, exactly. For both v1 and v2 I ran get_maintainer.pl, which only
> > > lists Hu Haowen and the mailing lists for zh_TW files, so Alex and the
> > > zh_CN team were never on cc.
> >
> > Right, let's note this situation down. We'll deal with it after we come
> > up with the final solution.
> >
> > >
> > > > Given that this document has not been maintained for ~2 years and these
> > > > patches to the terminology actually don't have much significance, it
> > > > might be more appropriate to directly declare the status of Traditional
> > > > Chinese as "Orphan" provisionally for now, and remove it directly in the
> > > > near future, until Hao Wen's return and opinion. Or maybe, waiting for a
> > > > new good soul to take over, which is unpredictable.
> > >
> > > Before it comes to that: I would like to step up and help carry zh_TW
> > > forward. I am a native zh_TW speaker from Taiwan, and I understand
> > > this means staying with it, not a one-off effort.
> >
> > Nice and thanks. Frankly speaking, At the very beginning, I did consider
> > saying that I also wanted to take over, and I wished I could. However,
> > considering that I was certainly not familiar with the traditional
> > Chinese terms used in Taiwan (although I knew some, that was all), I
> > finally chose to be speak more conservatively.
> >
> > > Dongliang, since you kindly offered to help review zh_TW patches:
> > > would you be open to doing this together -- either as co-maintainers,
> > > or with me listed as a reviewer (R:) first if that is a more
> > > reasonable starting point for a newcomer?
> >
> > Since I was the one who shamelessly initiated this discussion, I
> > definitely have the obligation to do something. See below...
> >
> > > > > To avoid scattering our efforts, I suggest we minimize fragmentation
> > > > > as much as possible. When it comes to technical documentation
> > > > > translation, not literary translation, a straightforward, unadorned,
> > > > > and free from misunderstandings is the best translation and easy to
> > > > > maintain. Let's keep thing simple, unless sth is really necessary.
> > >
> > > Alex, I think this concern is fair, and I have no intention of
> > > forking the translation effort. The scope I have in mind is
> > > deliberately narrow: keep zh_TW aligned with zh_CN in structure and
> > > coverage, and localize only where terminology genuinely differs
> > > (e.g. 軟體 vs 软件, 介面 vs 接口) -- exactly the kind of differences
> > > you mentioned. Plain, accurate technical translation, no literary
> > > rewriting.
> >
> > Exactly, before sending my first email here, I had already thought about
> > the following approach, what do you think?
> >
> >   * Considering that English documents are changing so rapidly, and even
> >     simplified Chinese cannot keep up with them immediately. I suggest
> >     we start working on catching up with simplified Chinese right now,
> >     which seems like a good place to begin. (ok... seems exactly what you said ;-)
> >
> > > Weijie, as a first concrete step I will prepare a terminology series
> > > (rather than one-word-at-a-time patches, as you suggested) covering
> > > the existing process/ documents, and use it to build a small glossary
> > > that future patches and reviews can follow.
> >
> > I used to read this:
> >
> > https://zh.wikibooks.org/wiki/%E5%A4%A7%E9%99%86%E5%8F%B0%E6%B9%BE%E8%AE%A1%E7%AE%97%E6%9C%BA%E6%9C%AF%E8%AF%AD%E5%AF%B9%E7%85%A7%E8%A1%A8
> >
> > Is it comprehensive? I don't know. Perhaps we could add some specific
> > reference tables related to the Linux Kernel on top of it.
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 13, 2026 at 11:49:07AM +0800, Dongliang Mu wrote:
> > > Chen-Yu,I would like to serve as co-maintainers to help maintain zh_TW. The
> > > script - tools/docs/checktransupdate.py can seamlessly work on zh_TW. This
> > > can help track the missing changes.
> >
> > I would also like to take a job ;-) while my current contributions are
> > not sufficient. And wish soon.
> >
> > > As discussed with Alex before, maybe zh_TW patches can first go to Alex's
> > > kernel tree and then push to Jon's tree. I am not sure if you are familar
> > > with the maintainer workflow. If not, this solution may be better for you to
> > > learn maintainer workflow.
> >
> > I suggest that we could try out the provisional plan for about one or
> > two months (depends), and then make a formal change.
> >
> > Before we make a formal change, I will monitor the list (CN & TW), If
> > there is any situation like this patch which is not sent correctly, I
> > will handle it promptly.
> >
> > OK, I consider myself quite familiar with the development process and
> > the maintenance process, mainly from Git (seems more complicated).
> > Perhaps I can handle most of the operation and maintenance tasks of
> > chore, giving Chen-yu more time and concentration to focus on the actual
> > translation work. But this can be further discussed.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Weijie