Re: [RFD] New driver system (was Adding new syscalls via modules)

Khimenko Victor (khim@sch57.msk.ru)
Wed, 7 Jul 1999 23:05:19 +0400 (MSD)


In <C32567A7.004357F7.00@storactive.com> Alexander_Maryanchick%STORACTIVE@storactive.com (Alexander_Maryanchick%STORACTIVE@storactive.com) wrote:
>> And you know what ? Thay can not be implemented in Windows without evil
>> patching the kernel as well :-)) Just there you must patch binary-only
> kernel
>> without sources on the fly in memory (it's not theory -- I seen code for
>> some of this toys). And this way is not practical for Linux: there are
> contless
>> combinations of compilers/compiler flags...
> I wrote many drivers for windows and I know how ugly are their kernels.
> Windows extensibility is low too.
> But they learn on their mistakes.
> NT 4.x has almost acceptable filter-driver system.
> Although it is unusable in some situations due to M$ favorite opacity,
> it allows to write a lot of interesting tools.
> Even silly '9x has 'hooks'.
> Let us learn on their mistakes too ;-)

NT 4.x is also slow as hell on the same hardware where both Linux (even latest
revisions) and 95 works just fine. I wonder -- why ? But may be it's just
something non-related...

>>> While we spend time rewritting patches, M$ distributes drivers :-(.
>> Yes. And when our patches are finally fixed M$ drivers still do not work
>> as expected... And I STILL can not use Delphi4 due crash in video driver
> :-((
> Hooks and filters are innocent.

Why are you so sure ?

> M$ problem is opacity and ugly initial design.

And hooks will add opacity to mix really fast :-((

>>> I think, the lack of extensibility is a MOST important weakness of Linux
>>> kernel. We need to fix this problem. Do you agree?
>> No. Adding new feature to Linux is more easy then addign new feature to
> Windows.
> %-(. Forget these poor windows!
> Pushing an idea +
> fixing the whole kernel +
> fixing interfaces +
> distributing new feature
> = some months per feature.

And it's GREAT ! If feature is REALLY need it will be added eventually.
But if not then chance is high that it will not be added at all and we'll
not have this ugly compatibility problems. BTW if idea requires "fixing the
whole kernel" then it's hardly possible to implement it via separate module
anyway. Hooks or no hooks.

> New driver system = some months *once*!

Yes, and then we'll got bloatware like Windows very fast :-))

>>> We have completely other problem: most nice toys from winfiles.com are
> not
>>> interested to hackers with enough skills to implement them and users who
> want
>>> them do not have enough skills...
> And companies almost ready to sell these features to users don't want to
> distribute patches.
> And users stick to windows... :-(
> Do we want to rule the world? ;-)

Not if this means creating something bloat and ugly in place of something
that is simple and clear ... And IMHO easy way to add new features will
make it much uglier fast ... I'm interested in OS to solve MY problems.
I hardly interested in marketshare. There are enough peoples for whom
marketshare is important (RedHat, SuSE, Caldera :-) and they will try to
add ugly and unneeded things in kernel... We must reject them :-) It will be
harder it the future :-/

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