> If there is a more specific mailing list than lkml for discussing
> the generic driver model, please feel free to redirect me.
No, the kernel list is right. I'm a lazy bastard that travels a lot, so
response latency is often higher than it should be.
> I'm thinking about trying to embed struct device_class into
> struct bus_type or perhaps just eliminate the separate struct
> bus_type. The two structures are almost identical, especially
> considering that device_class.devnum appears not to be used by
Someone else tried to do this a while back, and my argument was the same
as this is going to be: they are very distinct objects that describe
It is true that classes are not used much in the current kernel. The last
six months have not afforded enough time to convert as much code to use
them as I would have preferred. As a result, the class and interface code
is the least mature (and the least personally liked) of the driver model
If you're interested, I've finished a paper for linux.conf.au on the
driver model that should describe the various objects and purposes (much
better than the Ottawa paper did). You can find it at:
Hopefully, you will find it useful. Feel free to send me comments on it,
as it may just be completely crappy.
> At first appearance, a bus_type (PCI, USB, etc.) and a
> device_class (network devices, input, block devices), may seem like
> opposite ends of the device driver abstraction, but really I think
> these are basically the same, and, more importantly, there can be many
> layers of these interfaces, and the decision about which are bus_types
> and which are device_classes is causing unnecessary coplexity. For
> example, SCSI defines both. SCSI can be a hardware bus, bus it also
> needs device_class so that scsi_debug (and eventually scsi generic) can
> use the struct interface mechanism.
They're not the same, though. They may be similar, but they are
A bus describes a physical transport. It defines semantics for
communicating with resident devices, independent of the functionality they
A class is the flipside. It describes the function a device is designed
to perform, independent of its underlying transport.
The interfaces that communicate with devices of a particular class are the
canonical entities that give devices meaning to users and userspace
Consider audio devices. The only things I care about are /dev/mixer and
/dev/dsp, which map to devices registered with the audio subsystem.
Actually, what is registered are not devices. They are objects allocated
by the driver for my sound card that describe the device in the context of
the audio subsystem. This object is independent of the bus the device
resides on. Communication from userspace to the device passes through the
driver, which formats the class requests to bus and device-specific ones
to actaully talk to the physical device. Something like this:
Me -> device node -> kernel intf -> audio subsys -> driver -> bus -> device
Some buses allow communication to devices on their bus type, regardless of
the devices' function. SCSI does this, as you mention, and so does PCI and
USB, via /proc/bus/*. Functionality is limited to what can generically be
done, and what the bus type allows you to do. They are not classes,
though. The interfaces they correspond to are specific to the underlying
SCSI is wrong about creating a device class. They are overloading
constructs for their own, twisted purposes. It's partly my fault, as I
know they could use a mechanism for registering and exporting interfaces
to bus-specific devices. It hasn't happened mainly because of time
> Also, merging device_class and bus_type could also enable a
> little more consolidation between struct device_interface and struct
> device_driver (as with device_class.devnum, device_interface.devnum
> does not appear to be used currently).
> Anyhow, I think this could shrink the drivers/base a bit and
> make it slightly more understandable. I'd be interested in knowing if
> anyone else is contemplating or developing this or wants to point out
> issues to watch out for.
Consolidation is possible, but I would not recommend doing it by merging
the structures. Look for other ways to create common objects that the two
can share. The distinction between the object types is important,
conceptually, if nothing else. Especially during the continuing evolution
of the model. At least for now, and for probably a very long time, I will
not consider patches to consolidate the two object types.
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Mon Dec 23 2002 - 22:00:24 EST