Re: the " 'official' point of view" expressed by kernelnewbies.orgregarding reiser4 inclusion

From: Jeff Garzik
Date: Sat Jul 22 2006 - 16:43:48 EST

Hans Reiser wrote:
Theodore Tso wrote:

Actually, the first bits

yes, the first bits.... other people send in completed filesystems....

Completed filesystems have a much higher barrier to entry, because they require a fresh review.

ext4 will go upstream MUCH faster, because it follows the standard process of Linux evolution, building on top of existing code with progressive changes:

cp -a ext3 ext4
update ext4
update ext4
update ext4

This process builds upon existing reviews and knowledge of existing code. This process also guarantees a higher degree of stability during development, because the interim changes must always form a complete, working, usable filesystem.

As the other poster mentioned, they went off to startups, and did not
become part of our community. How much of that was because their
contributions were more hassled than welcomed, I cannot say with
certainty, I can only say that they were discouraged by the difficulty
of getting their stuff in, and this was not as it should have been. They were more knowledgeable than we were on the topics they spoke on,
and this was not recognized and acknowledged.

Outsiders are not respected by the kernel community. This means we miss
a lot.

Anyone who fails to respect the kernel development process, the process of building consensus, is turn not respected, flamed, and/or ignored.

If you don't respect us, why should we respect you?

No, because distros would wait until it is not experimental before
giving it to their users by default, in my proposed release model. lkml

Distros follow their own release model, and don't have a care about what Hans Reiser thinks they should do.

<vendor hat on>
Red Hat has a pipeline in place for offering new technologies to users: Fedora Core -> RHEL, and sometimes RHEL technology previews. SuSE presumably does something similar with OpenSUSE.
</vendor hat>

There is PLENTY of opportunity to be experimental.

is populated with people FAR more suited to experimenting with
experimental filesystems than typical distro customer lists are. It is
commercial and political reasons that motivate distros being the first
with patches not tried yet by lkml, not the interests of the users.

Now, for other patches these commercial and political reasons may need
to be catered to as the price of getting the Redhats of the world to
fund kernel development, but that logic does not apply to Reiser4's

I always feel sad to hear technologists wail about politics.

In my experience, the cause of such is almost always the fault of the submittor, ignoring consensus. But once the submittor has decided that "politics" are cause of their troubles, the submittor focuses on that rather than addressing the technology objections that were raised.

With you in particular, you demonstrated NO interest in maintaining reiser3, once reiser4 began to make a splash. Linux kernel code exists for DECADES, and as such, long term maintenance is a CRITICAL aspect of development.

Regardless of whatever new whiz-bang technology exists in reiser4, there is a very real worry that you will abandon reiser4 once its in the tree for a few years, just like what happened with reiser3.


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