Re: [PATCH v2] docs: zh_TW: process: localize terminologies and improve fluency in 8.Conclusion

[葉宸佑]

Hi Dongliang, Weijie,

> For many files, the missing commits might not be needed as they might
> not affect the translation (such as typos in English).

Right -- which means the real workload is smaller than the raw numbers
suggest. For files where the pending commits turn out to be
English-only fixes, the update can be a trivial baseline bump
(an "update to commit HASH" commit with little or no content change),
so the tool's numbers stay meaningful without inventing work.

> Because this new commit style is developed recently by Yanteng and me,
> many translated documenation does not tranform to the corresponding styles.

Good to know the convention is recent -- zh_TW can simply adopt it
from the first series onward.

> For the todo list, you can check Jon's advice for new languages, e.g.,
> Spanish. Search it from LKML

Will do, thanks for the pointer.

> Yes, and that's documented in here,
>
> https://docs.kernel.org/translations/zh_CN/how-to.html
>
> so later zh_TW could consider making one.

Weijie: agreed, a zh_TW how-to (mirroring the zh_CN one, with the
glossary referenced) looks like the natural follow-up once the first
series settles the terminology. Adding it to the list.

So, to keep everything in one place, my understanding of the plan:

- Chen-Yu: terminology series for process/ (14 files), folding in the
  pending 8.Conclusion changes, glossary included; adopt the
  "update to commit HASH" convention from now on
- Chen-Yu: read Jon's advice for new-language efforts (Spanish thread)
- later: a zh_TW how-to document
- Weijie: investigate which documents may not need translation;
  monitor the CN/TW lists during the trial period
- Dongliang: review; patches routed through Alex's tree (pending
  Alex's confirmation)

If I got anything wrong, please correct me -- otherwise I will get
started on the series.

Thanks,
Chen-Yu

Weijie Yuan <wy@xxxxxxxxx> 於 2026年7月13日週一 下午6:23寫道：
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2026 at 02:35:22PM +0800, 葉宸佑 wrote:
> > Hi Dongliang, Weijie,
> >
> > Thank you both -- this is more support than I expected, and I am glad
> > to do this together.
> >
> > > Chen-Yu, I would like to serve as co-maintainers to help maintain zh_TW.
> > > [...]
> > > As discussed with Alex before, maybe zh_TW patches can first go to
> > > Alex's kernel tree and then push to Jon's tree. I am not sure if you are
> > > familar with the maintainer workflow. If not, this solution may be
> > > better for you to learn maintainer workflow.
> >
> > To be honest: no, I am not familiar with the maintainer workflow yet --
> > so far I have only been on the contributor side. So routing zh_TW
> > patches through Alex's tree first sounds like the right arrangement to
> > me, both for reliability and so that I can learn the workflow properly
> > before taking on more. Alex, if you are fine with this, thank you in
> > advance.
> >
> > > I suggest that we could try out the provisional plan for about one or
> > > two months (depends), and then make a formal change.
> >
> > Agreed. A trial period before touching MAINTAINERS is fair -- it lets
> > the work speak first. I will send the MAINTAINERS patch when you both
> > feel the arrangement has proven itself.
>
> Yeah, of course, this is not questioning your abilities at all. Winning
> the trust of the community step by step in a gradual manner is
> definitely better. This is something I have once again realized while
> going through the lore archives of how the Git localization was done. By
> reading their historical exchanges (between Junio C Hamano and Jiang
> Xin), we might be able to obtain some practical experience and
> precautions regarding the process. But this is not something that needs
> to be considered at present.
>
> > > https://zh.wikibooks.org/wiki/%E5%A4%A7%E9%99%86%E5%8F%B0%E6%B9%BE%E8%AE%A1%E7%AE%97%E6%9C%BA%E6%9C%AF%E8%AF%AD%E5%AF%B9%E7%85%A7%E8%A1%A8
> > >
> > > Is it comprehensive? I don't know. Perhaps we could add some specific
> > > reference tables related to the Linux Kernel on top of it.
> >
> > As a native speaker: it is a reasonable general reference, but it is
> > not kernel-specific, and some entries are dated or not what people
> > actually write in Taiwan today. I would rather build the glossary
> > bottom-up from the terms that actually appear in the kernel docs
> > (軟體/軟件, 介面/接口, 記憶體, 行程, 核心, 佇列, ...), and use the
> > wikibooks table only as a cross-check.
>
> Ah got it, so this is why we need a local to guard a pass ;-)
>
> > I will include the glossary as part of the first terminology series so
> > it can be reviewed like any other patch.
>
> Very much appreciated.
>
> > > Perhaps I can handle most of the operation and maintenance tasks of
> > > chore, giving Chen-yu more time and concentration to focus on the actual
> > > translation work.
> >
> > That would help a lot, thank you. It also sounds like a natural split:
> > you on process and monitoring, me on the translation and the zh_TW
> > terminology judgement.
> >
> > One last thing about the patch that started all this: rather than
> > keeping the v2 for 8.Conclusion pending, I would suggest dropping it
> > and folding its changes into the terminology series, so the fixes
> > land in one consistent batch. Any objection?
>
> I definitely agree. Batching them would be easier to review and
> retrospect, and it's better to track on the list.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2026 at 05:03:12PM +0800, 葉宸佑 wrote:
> > Here is the inventory I promised, from checktransupdate.py on mainline:
> >
> >   zh_TW:  51 translated files, all out of date
> >           221 distinct English commits to catch up with
> >
> >     process/      14 files
> >     admin-guide/  15
> >     arch/         12
> >     dev-tools/     5
> >     filesystems/   3
> >     cpu-freq/      1
> >     index.rst      1
> >
> > For calibration I ran the same tool on zh_CN: 178 translated files,
> > also all out of date, 639 distinct commits behind. So in terms of
> > drift from the English originals, zh_TW is not in a categorically
> > different state from zh_CN -- the real gap is coverage (51 vs 178
> > files), not decay.
>
> > That makes me more optimistic than the "two years of stagnation"
> > framing suggests: many zh_TW files are only behind by a typo fix or
> > two.
>
> Then I'm exaggerating, oops.
>
> > (The ~3300 documents with no Chinese translation at all are out of
> > scope for both locales, so I do not think that is the problem to
> > solve first.)
>
> Yes, and I suspect that some of the documents might not actually need to
> be translated? I will conduct some more investigations.
>
> > One thing I noticed while reading the script: checktransupdate.py
> > tracks the base commit accurately only when the translation commit
> > message contains "update to commit HASH" (or "Update the translation
> > through commit HASH"); otherwise it falls back to guessing from author
> > dates. Adopting that convention for zh_TW commits from now on would
> > make the tool's numbers reliable, and it costs nothing. Perhaps that
> > could be part of the "more reasonable workflow" Weijie mentioned.
>
> Yes, and that's documented in here,
>
> https://docs.kernel.org/translations/zh_CN/how-to.html
>
> so later zh_TW could consider making one.
>
> > My suggestion for the first step is process/ (14 files): it is where
> > new contributors land first, it is small enough to finish as one
> > series, and it is where the terminology differences are most visible.
> > I would fold the pending 8.Conclusion patch into that series and build
> > the glossary from it.
>
> Agreed. The significance of the initial stage for newcomers is
> self-evident. Of course, the English documents have undoubtedly been
> constantly revised over time. So for these two Chinese documents, this
> part is of crucial importance. After all, this is where almost everyone
> begins to read, including me. So when I found that there was a Chinese
> translation here, I was very happy ;-)
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2026 at 05:41:31PM +0800, Dongliang Mu wrote:
> >
> > On 7/13/26 5:03 PM, 葉宸佑 wrote:
> > > Here is the inventory I promised, from checktransupdate.py on mainline:
> > >
> > >    zh_TW:  51 translated files, all out of date
> > >            221 distinct English commits to catch up with
> > >
> > >      process/      14 files
> > >      admin-guide/  15
> > >      arch/         12
> > >      dev-tools/     5
> > >      filesystems/   3
> > >      cpu-freq/      1
> > >      index.rst      1
> > >
> > > For calibration I ran the same tool on zh_CN: 178 translated files,
> > > also all out of date, 639 distinct commits behind. So in terms of
> >
> > For many files, the missing commits might not be needed as they might not
> > affect the translation (such as typos in English).
> >
> > Because this new commit style is developed recently by Yanteng and me, many
> > translated documenation does not tranform to the corresponding styles.
> >
> > > drift from the English originals, zh_TW is not in a categorically
> > > different state from zh_CN -- the real gap is coverage (51 vs 178
> > > files), not decay. That makes me more optimistic than the "two years
> > > of stagnation" framing suggests: many zh_TW files are only behind by
> > > a typo fix or two.
> > >
> > > (The ~3300 documents with no Chinese translation at all are out of
> > > scope for both locales, so I do not think that is the problem to
> > > solve first.)
> >
> > Yes, we need more volunteers to translate English documents. However,
> > translation is not attractive in the LLM era. :(
>
> OK, the AI thing has still inevitably come up ;-)
>
> I can spend an entire afternoon reading the discussion emails and
> articles about AI/LLM in the community ;-)
>
>   Sidenote:
>   I noticed that there seems to be renewed discussion in the English
>   document section about removing the "assisted-by" trailer. It would be
>   a good idea to make a note of this and see if we need to update any
>   relevant sections.
>
> However, personally speaking, I still prefer to read the official
> website's documents. It was written by the developers, and of course it
> is more authoritative than the content produced by AI/LLM. And sometimes
> the information provided by the AI/LLM is a bit behind the information
> on the official website kernel.org.
>
> > For the todo list, you can check Jon's advice for new languages, e.g.,
> > Spanish. Search it from LKML
>
> Thanks, I'll learn about it too.